r/pcmasterrace • u/No_Instruction_7730 • 11d ago
If buying isn't owning, then pirating isn't stealing Meme/Macro
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u/Soundrobe 9d ago
You know that when you buy a game on Steam you buy the licence and the access. Also players don't pay for server maintenance. The devs have the right to close a server if it's not worth the money.
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u/TackettSF 9d ago
Buying was never owning it was licensing, pirating was never stealing it was copyright infringement.
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u/dracoryn 9d ago
I'm calling bullshit on this. People were stealing software, games, music, and movies before any of the recent dark patterns have emerged around ownership of stuff you buy.
Reddit memes can try as hard as they want to justify stealing. I ain't buying what you're selling.
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u/JabbaTech69 Main: 7900X / 7900XTX - Travel: 5600X/6700XT - Bambu P1S 9d ago
10000000000000000% agree
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u/ZombieNek0 10d ago
it is correct but not for developers they're being forced to work in shitty companies where their talents are wasted.
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u/Carlospedra 10d ago
They always say "piracy is the best policy" and it's never been more true today
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u/No_Assignment_5742 10d ago
Seen this the other day, and I completely agree...you can't steal something that no one owns
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u/Hopelesz 10d ago
People still pirated games even when they owned the disc and the game. I'm not trying to depend shitty business practice but I also don't condone theft or copyright violation which most pirating is about.
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u/AldrusValus 10d ago
few thing to note, Prating isnt theft, never has been never will be, its copyright infringement. CI has a higher penalty than petty theft.
Also, first sale doctrine doesn't cover any digital sales. If you buy any media digitally you don't have the rights to transfer it on your own.
"The exception does not apply to digital transmissions: The first sale exception only applies to the copyright owner’s distribution right. It does not apply to the reproduction right. When someone transmits a copy from one point to another over a network, like the internet, the transmitter retains the original copy of the work and the recipient of the transmission gets a new copy."
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u/gazebo-fan 10d ago
If they just made good demos again people wouldn’t pirate as much, people would try out a game they are interested in then decide to buy it or not. Sadly the idea of giving out something for free, even just a demo, gives corporate America seethe.
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u/mesact 10d ago
Here's the thing, though. We're splitting hairs, but you DID buy something: a license to play the game freely. You just didn't read the TOS and realize that's what you were buying (believe it or not, you're doing the same thing when you purchase physical media, except the means of terminating your license is more difficult... which is one of the reasons why certain games require online connectivity to play). And this isn't new practice. People buy licenses for Adobe, AutoCAD, and other software all the time. They're just saying the quiet part aloud for the first time.
That said, I think it's all a sham, and people should obtain their media in whatever way suits them best.
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u/Vanpocalypse 10d ago
Yall should realize that this is their Game Producers' solution to piracy.
Making all titles live service and 'as a service' means they can track how you play.
It let's them make it a lot harder to pirate, keeps property rights solely to them, and if they ever discontinue a service, you agreed to that possibility and can't do anything about it.
The AAA+ industry isn't going anywhere either, one day they'll make a game you simply just cannot access for free in anyway.
And nobody is going to do anything about it or stop it.
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u/Doom_and_gloom2 5800X3D | RTX 4080 | 32 GB 10d ago
Taking bets on how long it takes EA to follow suit. Rockstar has already indicated they will be following suit.
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u/TheAzarak 10d ago
I get that it's a joke, but I really don't like it because it doesn't even make sense. Devs want you to pay and not actually own the game. Okay? That doesn't make pirating any different. You're still taking a game without paying for it. Like... the fact that games are going to be temporary licenses or whatever isn't even relevant lol. You're playing a game without paying for it regardless of whether you own it when you buy it or not. Whether it was considered theft before or not is also unchanged, since I know that's up for debate as well.
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u/Ok-Material-9137 10d ago
Can we please stop using the "developers" word when talking about studio executives?
All my developer friends pirate games or have pirated games. The good thing about being a Dev is that you can write off the games you buy from tax as it is a work expense.
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u/foogles 10d ago
The fact that someone could just misunderstood what developers want so much to get all the way through making this meme, all 10 seconds of doing so or whatever, without having a fucking clue that it's the moneyed interests publishing games and not the rank-and-file that actually make them that are fucking people over, just boggles the mind. There are just way too many stories, way too much info out there for people to continue to be this ignorant.
So in case people just don't get it: nearly every developer just want people to be able to buy the game and get the rights to play it forever. For online games, maybe there's a subscription, maybe they make some cute cosmetics or whatever for people to buy later.
Complicated pre-order bonuses, worthless collector's editions (PDF art books!), ridiculous no-effort and day-one DLC, exploitative schemes, insane microtransactions, single player "early access", all that bullshit - that's publishers exerting control. Almost no person actually making games wants to nickel and dime their customers with that shit.
(I know, sometimes developers speak positively when they have to go on the record about these schemes - usually they're not stupid enough to go "yeah the man that signs my paycheck actually just wants to rip off everyone that buys the game I'm making", but when you ask them later, no, they never wanted it. The money made doesn't trickle down to them anyway, and they knew it then and they know it now. The man that signs their paycheck will probably lay them off soon anyway, even though they just bought a house a year or two back, and upended their entire lives and moved their family out to the state they're currently in.)
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u/TheGreatTave 5800X3D|7900XTX|32GB 3600|Steam & GOG are bae 10d ago
Game publishers. Jesus christ I'll keep saying this until everyone gets it: game devs wake up, go to work, do what they're told, then go home. They don't make the decision to put in all the bullshit. Even if a game is self published any blame should be placed on the upper management at that studio, not on the game devs.
I'm so tired of hearing "lazy devs won't fix their game" do people really think these people clock into work then just sit there and refuse to work? What the fuck?
Sorry I'm ranting, I'm in a bad mood and I just get so tired of seeing hate thrown towards game devs when 99% of the time they're just doing their job. This is like being mad at the cashier at Walmart because they removed a product from the store shelves.
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u/GoofAckYoorsElf i7 8700K, 64GB G.Skill TridentZ F4-3200, RTX 3090Ti FE 10d ago edited 10d ago
There's got to be time for that.
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u/Previous-Bid5330 10d ago
If you bought a game, then it is not yours only on paper, in fact, you have lifelong access to it from anywhere on the planet where there is Internet, there has not been a single precedent when a game in Steam were taken away from someone. But if you pirated it, that means you stole it, either in fact or on paper. In addition, there is a high chance that you will get a couple of viruses on your PC.
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u/DemonLordAC0 Aorus Elite B550M, R5 PRO 3600, 64gb 3200MHz, 6700XT 10d ago
*company CEOs.
Developers are 9/10 just doing what the higher ups order. It's their jobs and they have to make work with extremely tight timeframes and also crunch hours, work overtime and things like that
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u/watermelonspanker 10d ago
I usually gravitate toward Indie games, and I almost always buy them. I've even bought games that I otherwise would have passed on in order to support developers I like.
The few AAA games I play though - much respect to the devs, but the entire ecosystem that currently exists is unhealthy for both the developers and the players. I'm very glad that the barrier for entry has been steadily decreasing when it comes to quality games. I think as this trend continues much of the shitty culture/practices around game dev will necessarily shift to something more equitable and sustainable. At least I hope so.
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u/Significant-Foot-792 10d ago
Factorio players are confused by this. Our dev is nice to us. Also hello games need a shout out as being good guys. They refuse to take our money even though we are trying to force feed them.
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u/LycanKnightD6 Ryzen 7 5700G | RX 6600 | 16GB 3600Mhz 10d ago
A little "prediction " here... anti-consumer practices like this rise, piracy rises, to fight piracy they release "always online" only games even if they are single player only, so people stop buying (hopefully) now publishers only have 2 options, either stop the bullshit anti-consumer practices, or keep it and go broke...
If only the average "casual/normie/FIFA player" stopped buying from these asshole publishers, then maybe something would change in the industry.
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u/Anubis620 9940X/ 2080TI 10d ago
There are too many casual gamers. I've given up on the "people won't buy bad games/bad practices". Baulers gate 3, widely considered an excellent game makes less money than Diablo immortal... At the end of the day more money means more shit games.
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u/LycanKnightD6 Ryzen 7 5700G | RX 6600 | 16GB 3600Mhz 10d ago
I feel the same, at the very least I can feel vindicated knowing that Ubisoft is bleeding money by the mere fact that their games are painfully mediocre and completely fail to entice players...
The same can't be said for EA, I swear to God FIFA buyers must have 80 IQ, even if all their IPs fail, they still makes piles of money thanks to recycled forever FIFA
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u/TechieTravis PC Master Race RTX 4090 | i7-13700k | 32GB DDR5 10d ago
I don't agree with this logic. You buy a license to use the software. Pirating is still bypassing the intended way for it to be sold and used. It is still stealing.
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u/duckanator746 10d ago
I bet you don't find it absurd for car companies to sell subscriptions to use the heated seats
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u/KerbodynamicX i7-13700KF | RTX3080 10d ago
Wait, games that can be pirated are usually single-player in nature, and the pirated version usually cuts out the multiplayer features. And single-player games are also usually the ones that you own after you buy…
So, piracy is acquiring games that you usually pay to own, but now for free?
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u/awesometonio 10d ago
Don't forget, there are people fighting against this! Everyone needs to go to stopkillinggames.com, especially if you live in France or Australia! Spread it around, make this sentiment not just frowned upon, but illegal!
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u/moviemoocher 10d ago
say i buy a book do i really own it can i read it outloud to crowds or in a podcast?
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u/Thicc_Boi20 Z690-I7 12700k-RTX 3090Ti-48GB DDR5 6000 10d ago
If buying is borrowing then pirating is just borrowing w/o asking
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u/Illustrious_Tea9604 10d ago
There really needs to be a multi platform browser that lets you buy a game and can download/play on any supporting platform as long as it’s your acc. No need for always internet for it to work, can always go the code to phone security(cheap security) but at least you can play on your console in the middle of no where if you already had it downloaded…
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u/OJ-Lives 10d ago
Morally you are correct. Legally, the imposed penalties for pirating are often much worse than those for stealing.
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u/bikingfury 10d ago edited 10d ago
Here's something to think about: if you buy a DVD it is perfectly legal to give it to your friend. Now, if you buy a game online, burn it onto a DVD and then give it to your friend.... It's legal-illegal-ish?
But when you save the environment and just send it online instead you for sure go to jail.
The only thing that should be illegal is to SELL copies of a game you bought. Copyrights only protect SALES.
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u/hehehuehue Laptop 10d ago
This is why I refunded my Elden Ring copy, it's a great game - but if you're going to ban me for a mod, no thank you.
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u/Nekryyd 10d ago
Stop buying/pirating these games, gigabrains. We live in the platinum era of games where odds are extremely high that you will find something that caters to you very specifically, made by people bleeding passion out of their pores.
But y'all keep buying the gaming equivalent to the latest Fast and Furious movie.
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u/ChChChillian 10d ago
Yes, yes, yes. Technically, it's a copyright violation and not theft. But the "theft" narrative doesn't come from users, it comes from publishers with their idiotic, "You wouldn't steal/download a car" campaign.
So let's rephrase, since some people apparently have trouble interpreting catchphrases that weren't meant literally. For "buying" read "purchased what was supposed to have been a perpetual license in certain copyrighted material"; for "isn't owning" read "but the license is not in fact perpetual and/or intrusive DRM measures are effectively spyware or interfere with the smooth operation of my computer and/or we'll lock out your access to your own IP if we feel like it"; and for "isn't theft" read "is morally justifiable since there is no longer any guarantee we'll get what we bargained for."
Not very catchy, though.
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u/Skaindire 10d ago
I love how only a few companies behave like this, but every developer, even the small one-man teams, are the ones getting shafted.
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u/RetroTheGameBro 10d ago
Not devs, publishers. Hopefully an element of game releasing we can get rid of soon.
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u/HoundNL2 10d ago
This phrase came out of nowhere and is already one of the most overused statements there is, probably more than GabeN's "Piracy isn't a money problem, it's a service problem"
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u/CannabisAttorney 10d ago
Wow. Look at all the butthurt game developers who seem to be really upset that they accept pay to implement the things publishers demand of them that publishers couldn’t do without game developers.
Y’all are just as guilty as the publishers—your personal feelings might differ but you are a huge part of the fucking problem.
We don’t get here without at least a huge portion of your industry agreeing to write the code that sells the crap or limits future usability. This isn’t a case of just a few bad apples ruining the lot.
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u/ieatpickleswithmilk Desktop 10d ago
that's a non-sequiter. A means B has nothing to do with the validity of C mean D
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u/alyssasaccount 10d ago
I’m gonna Hotwire a car from a rental lot for my personal use, and if the cops go after me for auto theft, I’ll just point them to this post.
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u/TrumpsGhostWriter 10d ago
As a pirate this is the stupidest most ridiculous creed/motto I've ever heard.
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u/Thick_Lie_516 10d ago
Tom should be marked as "game publishers" not "game devs"
devs will at times encourage piracy, publishers never do that
devs want people to enjoy their game, publishers only want the money
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u/BlackTopBeats 10d ago
And this is why I pirate almost all games unless it means something to me enough to want to pay the developers for it like fallout I've been playing it since 2018 and I now have every fallout game paid for
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u/ForumPointsRdumb 10d ago
Just like being called a hacker when you're playing a legit game, the biggest compliment you can give shows in an era of open piracy (10 years ago) is the buy their dvd because it was that good and you want to support them.
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u/Bruh___789 10d ago
Nobody cares if you pirate games but it is hilarious when you pretend that pirating games is somehow noble
You’re stealing because you’re either cheap or poor, you’re not making a statement against corporate greed
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u/redstern 10d ago
Considering how much these companies hate it when people pirate their games, and the enormous amount of money they spend trying to stop piracy, you are very wrong. If corps are mad, you're doing something right.
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u/Socioefficient 10d ago
Yall say shit like this and still feel bad using G2A 💀💀💀
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u/redstern 10d ago
That's because G2A keys have a likelihood of being bought with stolen credit cards. Regular people's money. Piracy costs corps money.
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u/Socioefficient 10d ago
Lmao I knew one of y’all’s bitchasses would reply with this bullshit 💀💀💀
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u/randompasserby89 10d ago
And the game industry really wants us to give tips to these devs, on top of paying for it, if we finish their games. Piracy was never the answer, but it look like it's the only way to humble these game industry idiots.
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u/Zamboni_Driver 10d ago
It's not theft of goods, it's theft of services.
Like if you hired a maid to clean you house and you watched how they cleaned your house and then next time you cleaned the house yourself using the skills that you saw the maid use, that would be kind of fucked up. You would be literally stealing the labour of the maid and copying it, that means lost revenue for the maid and eventually a collapse of society.
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u/Toby_The_Tumor Amd 7600, Ryzen 5 7600x. running 1080p 10d ago
No, a good analogy for the maid is stealing a customer from the maid right before they come clean using the maid's mess. Even then, this analogy doesn't work because the maid thing wasn't great to begin.
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u/Rampaging_Orc 10d ago
Memes like this are really the only thing that makes me self conscious about what I do pirate lmao. So fking cringe.
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u/gamegye88 10d ago
Thought I was on /piracy there for a second. Was about to do “say the line bart”
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u/rddt2342 10d ago
If publishers are stealing my game, then taking back the money i paid is fine.
Get your money back, gamers!
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u/Toby_The_Tumor Amd 7600, Ryzen 5 7600x. running 1080p 10d ago
With The Crew, yeah, a refund should be given. You can't even access the fucking files anymore. I'm not normally one to say that about an old game, but you literally can't access the files even if you have the old system.
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u/Rando_Kalrissian 10d ago
Pirating is still stealing. What kind of argument is this? I know what I'm doing when I go download an old game to emulate. Just because I can't buy it anymore (or for an overinflated price) doesn't mean it's not stealing.
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u/myka-likes-it 10d ago
This framing bugs me because you have never bought or owned software ever in your life. You have only ever bought permission to use the software in the form of a license.
Therefore, when you use someone else's property without permission that is equivalent to theft.
But also only publishers care about theft. As a dev, I would be tickled pink if people were pirating my games.
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u/Curliuni 10d ago
That’s not really how logic works. I don’t understand the reasoning here.
If you buy the game and you don’t own the copy of the game, then you don’t own it, obviously, but they still do. So if you pirate something they (the company) owns, you’re stealing it since you don’t pay them.
You can see it as a lease if you buy it, as they can legally remove the game. However I don’t know when they legally can remove it.
I do pirate stuff tho, i’m just pointing out the flaw in this logic.
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u/MacsPowerBike 10d ago
What a trashy mindset to have ..
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u/GQManOfTheYear 10d ago
Do you consider it "trashy" that corporations sell you games that you don't get to own?
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u/Most_Mix_7505 10d ago
At this point, it’s not stealing if it’s from a large corp, it’s just reclamation
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u/BainterBoi 10d ago
Rather underaged take.
If you can lend a car during your trip, is stealing it impossible? Different contracts do not change meaning of stealing.
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u/PlatinumSif 10d ago
I'm tom seeing this post for the 1000th time. Go back to third world country memes.
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u/APrentice726 10d ago
Ah yes, the backwards logic of shitty immoral people who are desperately trying to convince themselves they’re not just petty thieves. You’re using a product that you don’t own, didn’t purchase, and weren’t given permission to use by the owner. That is the textbook definition of stealing.
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u/redstern 10d ago
Immoral? You mean like how the publishers overwork and underpay their developers to rush out an unfinished product for full price while filling it with money pits at every possible turn to nickle and dime the customers that already aren't getting what they were promised and paid for? Products that are at worst being used to get around gambling laws to serve casinos to children?
That kind of immoral? Fuck em. They fully deserve to be stolen from.
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u/Axel-Adams 10d ago
I mean I’m all for calling out scummy practices but this is just a bad argument, you can steal a rental car and it’s still stealing
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u/voyagerfan5761 MSI GS76 | i9-11900H | 64GB | RTX 3080 16GB 10d ago
Renting isn't buying.
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u/Axel-Adams 10d ago
You’re purchasing a license to use a product for a period of time before your access is revoked
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u/VulGerrity Windows 10 | 4770K | RTX 4070 Super 10d ago
Buying media has never been owning. You've always bought a license to be able to play, watch, or listen to something. The difference is that you OWNED a physical piece of media like a disc, a record, or a tape. Physical media technically has an expiration date. Buying the VHS of a movie has never entitled you to a free upgrade to the DVD, then the Blu-Ray, then the 4K Blu-Ray. Buying a VHS has never protected you from physical damage if your VCR ate your tape, or you left the tape in a hot car. If your original got destroyed, then you had to buy another copy. Buying a video game for windows 95 has never guaranteed you'd be able to play it on Windows 11.
The difference is with digital it's the studios that are taking away the license without any warning. It takes away all of the agency of the consumer. I think it's going to need government regulation. Something like all digital purchases need to be available for the average lifespan of the physical counter part. This could mean anywhere from 5-20 years. OR if a digital purchase is going to be made unavailable, the studios should be required to offer an upgrade to a more permanent/physical alternative.
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u/BigOlBlimp 10d ago
This line of reasoning is idiotic. Just because there’s no way to completely own a copy of some software doesn’t mean copyright infringement rules don’t apply.
Pirate all the games you want I don’t care, but don’t for a second think you’re justified in any way. Do it and don’t give a fuck, or don’t do it.
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u/DrButtholeRipperMD 10d ago
It's actually the publishers who have moved the industry to a licensing model, not the developers.
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u/Long_Campaign_1186 10d ago
You do own the specific copy, but you don’t own the rights to the content itself, hence why you have to pay for each copy and not doing so is stealing from the company.
(I’m not endorsing any of that system, I couldn’t care less whether people pirate; I’m just explaining what they legally mean by “buying” vs “owning” and how that ties into piracy laws)
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u/CustardCremez 10d ago
I have Amazon prime and pirated the fallout TV show. I may be pirating but they're running a scam making me pay extra to remove their ads.
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u/Majestic-Contract-42 10d ago
But buying a licensed product isn't owning it... You buy a license to use the product under certain agreed conditions.
And pirating something isn't stealing... It's copying something without permission.
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u/OdiumsPants 10d ago
I have to think that like 90% of people that unironically believe this are under 16
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u/CrissCrossAM Laptop MSI GF75 Thin 8RD i7-8750H + GTX 1050 Ti 10d ago
I feel bad for some game devs because of how much game studio CEOs or publishers take money from the people who make these games, most of the time in constant crunch, and end up underpaid while those publishers hog all the money.
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u/AlacarLeoricar 10d ago
It's not theft, but it is copyright infringement. Technically speaking. But honestly, it's not nearly as bad as they make it out to be.
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u/PlayerAssumption77 10d ago
Just because a service is available doesn't mean you decide who it belongs to
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u/Full_Description_ 10d ago
All the game devs I see mad about pirating tend to have hoards of illegally downloaded MP3s.
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u/WeeklyEducation2276 10d ago
It's different when the terms of agreement tell you that you are only paying to access and not own the game.
Which all this digital games all say but no one reads them and blindly supports only digital and then goes shock Pikachu face when the game is taken away
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u/Geoclasm 10d ago
okay except it's not the developers that have any say-so over this bullshit - it's the publishers.
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u/YuiSato 10d ago
Sell me a soulless, half finished, cash-grab game, full of micro-payments and adverts; and which you’d fired half the team once it was released... I'm probably going to consider stealing it.
Sell me a passion project that brings me joy, then I'll buy it from you and await your coming projects, whilst discussing and promoting them with/to my friends on the internet.
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u/PizzaSalamino 10d ago
IT’S NOT THE DEVELOPERS. It’s the higher up suits that want income income income
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u/password_too_short 10d ago
That quote is gonna come back and haunt that ubi suit in the future me thinks.
what a shit company, worse now than EA imo.
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