r/geography • u/_JPG97_ • 15d ago
What's a really interesting border/feature/fact that you know that you feel doesn't get talked about much? Question
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u/LordDanGud 14d ago
Büsingen am Hochrhein is politically german but economically swiss and is a german enclave in Switzerland.
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u/Ok_Spend_889 15d ago
Nunavut shares several islands with Denmark/Greenland(hans island) , Newfoundland(killiniq island) , nwt(Victoria island, Melville island, Mackenzie King island, Borden island). I like to bring up the desert on Baffin islands brodeur peninsula
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u/Beatles1971 15d ago
Not a border, but a feature: the doldrums. The fact that the ocean is perfectly placid at the equator really intrigues me.
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u/Appropriate-Diver158 15d ago edited 15d ago
Llivia, a Spanish exclave within France which shows how important fine prints can become when writing a treaty.
Following the Franco Spanish war (1635-1659), a treaty was signed stating that the Pyrenees mountain range would be the definitive border between France and Spain. The treaty also stated that only the Spanish villages would become part of France.
But Llivia was not a village, it was a town (vila in Catalan). So it remained Spanish. And, over 350 years later, it still is a Spanish village town.
It also became the center of a rather hilarious "war" between France and Spain: the war of the stop signs (1971-1983). A neutral road did link Llivia to the rest of Spain, and the French government would put stop signs to give priority to French roads at all crosses just because why not. And locals would rip these signs off because it pissed them off. There's no record of stop signs casualties, and the "war" ended when the Spainsh government did build a bridge to bypass the road crosses, ending the possibility to bicker.
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u/Starlactite 14d ago
I'm not expert, but I believe that it's even more wild than that. The treaty, I believe, states that the Spanish can travel to mainland Spain inhibited.
However, the stop sign counts as an inhibition and that's why it was a source of problems.
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u/Appropriate-Diver158 14d ago
Damn, this town really went wild on the fine prints by the looks of it.
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u/zalishchyky 15d ago
All of the offshore islands of James Bay are owned by Nunavut, including the islands just off the coast of northern Ontario. But, of course, there are tides, So, for example, you can walk from Ontario to Nunavut in spots like this. One especially quirky quirk of this border is Fafard Island, an island in the estuary of the Albany River (Ontario) that is considered to be a part of James Bay and thus legally Nunavut.
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u/Akira1Lana 15d ago
Speaking about Canada already: Check Hans Island: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whisky_War
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u/five_AM_blue 15d ago
A weird one for me is the region of Thomaz Albornoz, disputed between Brazil and Uruguay. It's a hilly grassland with nothing but a small village, and I think, a wind energy plant. No country seems to care much about that land.
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u/Shevek99 15d ago
Dekhelia and Akrotiri are two UK military bases in Cyprus, but they are not parts of the republic of Cyprus leased to the UK. They are a British Overseas Territory (not part of the UK either).
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u/Qiimassutissarput 15d ago
For me it has to be Guantanamo Bay in Cuba. Technically the USA shared a border with Cuba, but Cuba refused to cash the checks were sending and never recognized the federal prison there.
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u/Shevek99 15d ago
Guantanamo Bay is Cuban territory, leased to the US (or not, according to Cuba), so technically there is no border there as there are no borders around the US military bases in Europe.
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u/Jeggfried 15d ago
There is an island in the Danube river between Croatia and Serbia that still does not belong to any country. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberland?wprov=sfla1
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u/Jeggfried 15d ago
There's a river island between France and Spain that changes state belonging every half a year. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pheasant_Island?wprov=sfla1
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u/infinite_p0tat0 15d ago
The etymology begins with "There are no pheasants on the island", great start to the article
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u/jms_nh 15d ago
A small part of Delaware has a land border with New Jersey
https://nj1015.com/too-close-for-comfort-parts-of-delaware-are-in-new-jersey/
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u/Intelligent-Soup-836 15d ago
There was a Texas town, Rio Rico, that became a part of Mexico when the river changed course. When the US decided to give the land to Mexico, the predominantly Mexican-American population decided to remain Americans and move.
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u/PinkFloyden 14d ago
Not entirely sure but isn’t that because the US and Mexico agreed that the Rio grande would “represent” the border between the two countries?
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u/Intelligent-Soup-836 14d ago
Yes the Rio Grande/Rio Bravo Del Norte is the agreed upon border but when it changes course it creates a diplomatic issue since the two countries now have to agree on the new border. It has happened a few times and this was the only case where no one noticed for years. Sometimes when the river changes course they just pretend it didn't and carry on
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u/flaginorout 15d ago
Seems odd that France would even want to maintain that as a territory? You’d have thought they’d have given that up a long time ago.
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u/Temper03 15d ago
Tell that to French Guiana (South America), French Polynesia (South Pacific), New Caledonia (Australasia), Clipperton (next to Mexico), Reunion (Africa), Martinique (Caribbean), and French Southern and Antarctic Lands (Antarctica). France is THE country for holding on to random bits in every continent / geography
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u/PinkFloyden 14d ago
France is the country with the most time zones (13 time zones including France’s claim on Antarctica). Seems weird lol
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u/bunkmumbling 15d ago
Denmark has three land borders. Germany and Sweden (the Öresund bridge) are pretty obvious, but the third one is .... Canada.
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u/Ande644m 14d ago
A bridge does not a land border make. Sweden and Denmark don't share a land border. If it did is the island of Zealand no longer a island.
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u/MarkWrenn74 15d ago
Must be near Greenland
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u/kittyroux 15d ago
It is. There’s an island we “fought” over by periodically changing the flag and leaving Danish schnapps or Canadian whisky. In 2022 the war was concluded with the creation of a land border.
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u/dogfoodhoarder 15d ago
The Russian invasion of Ukraine gave pause to Canada and Denmark, they divided Han's Island in half.
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u/coffeewalnut05 15d ago
Berwick upon Tweed is an English border town that has been exchanged between England and Scotland at least 14 times. The town is physically in England today but retains some Scottish characteristics, particularly in architecture and the local accents.
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u/beansouphighlights 15d ago
St. Martin Parish, Louisiana is cut in half, each half being called Upper and Lower St. Martin Parish. It’s cut in half by Iberia Parish, which itself isn’t all in one piece, including Marsh Island in its borders. Kinda neat to me
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u/Toothless816 15d ago
This may be a stupid question but I checked it out on google maps after you mentioned it. The borders go around all of the channels in the east of Iberia Parish. Are waterways not included in the parishes?
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u/NorCalifornioAH 14d ago
They are, Google Maps just loves to exclude as much water as it can from counties, parishes, municipalities, etc.
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u/Allemaengel 15d ago
One of the world's shortest borders in the form of the Botswana-Zambia border near Kazungula which is basically not a lot wider than the bridge that crosses the Zambezi River there.
Zimbabwe and Namibia's Caprivi Strip come so close to meeting there to make an international Four Corners.
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u/Some-Tall-Guy75 15d ago
Point Roberts is an interesting one. Part of the US where you have to go through Canada to get to.
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u/Astroportal_ 14d ago
Technically Alburgh, VT has the same situation.
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u/doctorvictory 14d ago
If it wasn't for bridges, yes. But there are 3 bridges that connect Alburgh to other parts of Vermont and New York
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u/roguetowel 15d ago
The thing about Point Roberts is how many people live there and how much they have to rely on the US. It only recently was put on Google streetview.
https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/local-news/map-small-american-town-vancouver-missing-google-street-views-676766424
u/Bri-guy15 15d ago
The Northwest Angle in Minnesota too. And Campobello Island in New Brunswick, which only has road access from the US.
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u/warmtoiletseatz 15d ago
The United States technically shares a nautical border with New Zealand. Rose atoll, American Samoa, meets the Cook Islands.
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u/doskoV_ 15d ago
The Cook Islands is an independent country, it just has free association with New Zealand
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u/ProfessorPetulant 15d ago
Oh interesting. Do cook islanders have a NZ passport or a cook island passport?
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u/doskoV_ 15d ago
Cook Island Nationals are NZ Citizens (they don't issue their own passports despite being an independent country) and have full rights to live and work in New Zealand but New Zealanders don't have full rights to work and live in the Cook Islands.
There's over 100,000 cook islanders who live in New Zealand or Australia compared to around 15,000 who actually live in the Cook islands
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u/_JPG97_ 15d ago
I actually didn't know this even though it makes a ton of sense. I feel like there are a lot of interesting ones like that
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u/OldChairmanMiao 15d ago edited 15d ago
Also, people born in American Samoa don't get automatic citizenship. I've heard it has much to do with land ownership laws - chiefly that you need to be at least 50% Samoan to own land there.
edit: yeah, it's controversial but they don't :/
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u/ProfessorPetulant 15d ago
They have a weird American but not American passport don't they?
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u/jkowal43 15d ago
They are American nationals but not American citizens.
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u/ProfessorPetulant 14d ago
So weird. Taxation without representation? What are the benefits and drawbacks?
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u/warmtoiletseatz 14d ago
American Samoa attorney here: the benefits are they can adopt protectionist laws that would be illegal (unconstitutional) in the United States because they are based on race. There are blood quantum laws that allow only Samoans to own property. This prevents what happened in Hawaii, with the native population there becoming a minority and the land falling into the hands of outsiders. They also are allowed to handle their own immigration, the only territory allowed to do this, which is important given the cultural ties to the country of Samoa to the west. Being born US nationals and not citizens allows them to achieve these objectives.
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u/ProfessorPetulant 14d ago
Oh I see. A bit like Cook islanders vs New Zealand then? Cook islanders can freely go live in New Zealand but not vice versa. They use the NZ passport even though they are a fully fledged country. What you describe sounds like a similar arrangement to establish a special relationship. What about taxation then?
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u/warmtoiletseatz 11d ago
American Samoa has its own income tax code, which is just a photo copy of the 2000 U.S. tax code. They don’t pay income tax to the U.S. under a certain income (about 95k or so). I believe it’s the only territory that operates this way.
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u/_JPG97_ 15d ago
For me it has to be the St. Pierre and Miquelon border with Canada. Being from Newfoundland I know a good bit about this area but I find that very few people know about one of the most ridiculous borders in the world. In 1992, representatives from 5 countries voted on what EEZ to give to SPM (including Canada and France) and they decided on this (which was about 1/4 of what France asked for)
Originally this gave France an EEZ that went straight to international waters until later in the 1990s Canada decided to use Sable Island as a basis for their EEZ so that now, it fully extends past the French border meaning SPM is fully surrounded by the Canadian EEZ. Wild.
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u/johnman300 15d ago
Do they speak the France version of French there? Or the Canadien one? In my French class school trip to Montreal back in high school, we all had REAL issues understanding what the Quebecois were saying.
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u/miquelon 15d ago
European French, with strong influences from Normand, Northern France.
Read : A Metropolitan French Isolate in North America: the French language in Saint-Pierre-et-Miquelon
https://repository.lsu.edu/tete_a_tete/vol2/iss1/5/2
u/Throwaway_qc_ti_aide 15d ago
with strong influences from Normand, Northern France.
Coincidently, the same can be said for Québec french.
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u/miquelon 15d ago
Not really. They were influenced by same regions and Paris but before accent shifts in the 18th century. Our influences are 19th and 20th century.
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u/Throwaway_qc_ti_aide 14d ago
They were influenced by same regions
That's what I said. Sure, there's the bourgeois/royal french split to account for.
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u/inflatable_pickle 15d ago
What is an EEZ, and more important question: what was the nationality of these islands prior to 1972? Like in 1972 after the treaty – citizens of this area were just notified that they are now French?
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u/_JPG97_ 15d ago
The islands have been french since 1815 (and switched hands various times before that).
EEZ is exclusive economic zone. Basically they have the right to do any economic activity in that zone. Rights to fish, discover oil, etc. Its a bit more complex but that's basically it.
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u/inflatable_pickle 15d ago
Do the populations of these islands speak mostly French or mostly English? Is there a Wikipedia for the islands collectively?
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u/miquelon 15d ago
French since the early 1600s, settled seasonally by the French, Basque and Irish from the early 1520s. Mentioned by Cartier in 1536.
Part of the French colony of Plaisance (newfoundland) until Utrecht 1713.
Returned in 1763.
Full deportation of population in 1778 for France's support of new USA
Returned 1783
Full deportation of population 1793-1794 because of French revolution, prison camps in Halifax, deportation to UK and FranceReturned 1814, not settled.
Full settlement return in 1816, French ever since.3
u/inflatable_pickle 15d ago
Is there a Wikipedia about the various forced deportations? Fascinating.
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u/miquelon 15d ago
My website ? Www.grandcolombier.com. Wikipedia is full of nonesense and people love to argue they know better than you.
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u/miquelon 15d ago edited 15d ago
Ah yes the ridiculous 1992 decision. I don't believe Canada changed anything using Sable Island, I strongly believe the expert panelists used maps that didn't go as far as Sable Islands and didn't predict Canada's eventual usage of the islands. But that's just my opinion.
Also there was a push for a discontinuous continental shelf claim, but it really looks like the French government didn't really want to go through with it.
Also Canada spied on the French delegation, they knew ahead of hand everything France was going to claim and how they were strategizing using the Echelon spy network. https://grandcolombier.com/2008/10/02/1999-canada-a-key-snooper-in-huge-spy-network/
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u/innsertnamehere 15d ago
St Pierre and Miquelon is such an oddity in general being a little bastion of the EU in North America. Definitely on my bucket list to visit.
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u/miquelon 15d ago edited 15d ago
Oddity, yes tell me about it.
Imagine being from there and having to explain to people where you're from, from the US Border agent who wonders where were you born since your birthplace is listed in code as "SPM", to the Canada post agent who tells you your parcel needs a canadian postal code beause they don't know better, to the French from France guy asking you if you got used to the French climate yet because overseas must mean Carribean or South Pacific. Or the islander who gets his military papers to show up next week, with a complimentary train ticket.
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u/michaelmcmikey 15d ago
I don’t understand your point about the Canada post agent. The people in st Pierre Miquelon don’t use the Canadian postal service.
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u/miquelon 15d ago
I live in Canada. Sending something home is a nightmare. If I use the France postal code (97500) mail ends up being burnt in a dump in Medford Oregon. So I write "via Montreal Transit) as they know what to do, but the Canada post agents act super dumb. "Is this a military base?"
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u/marpocky 15d ago
Not part of the EU
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u/innsertnamehere 15d ago
I mean it’s part of France so its residents are all EU citizens from my understanding. I think they also use the euro and have European cars..
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u/Yeggoose 15d ago
I’ve been there! It’s a mix of European and American cars (maybe 50/50). So you’ll see full size American SUVs like a Chevy Suburban parked besides a tiny French Renault, both sporting SPM number plates.
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u/marpocky 15d ago
Its residents are French citizens and even EU citizens but SPM is not in the EU. It's complicated.
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u/art7k65 15d ago
Do you know the real reason behind this? Given that most overseas terriories are part of the EU (French Guyana, La Réunion, the açores, etc.).
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u/miquelon 15d ago
We're not a departement, we're a semi autonomous territory. Our taxes remain on the islands, we print our own stamps, not all french laws automatically apply etc etc
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u/FunkyEchoes 14d ago
wait, so as a French citizen I can't just be flown in without a passport then ?
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u/miquelon 14d ago
Ok. French citizens, you need a passport as there a 90 % chance you're transiting via Canada to connect to an Air St Pierre flight - they exist, check it out http://airsaintpierre.com/
There are some seasonal direct flights from France. Then you don't need a passport.
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u/LeapYear1996 14d ago
Damn, Miquelon just showed up!!!
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u/WestonSpec 15d ago
The EU treaties created the categories of Outermost Regions (OMR) and Overseas Countries and Territories (OCT).
Outermost Regions are officially part of the EU, all EU laws/regulations apply (with the option of limited opt-out and modification), and are considered within the EU customs area (but not necessarily the Schengen Area).
Overseas Countries and Territories are not part of the EU, and therefore are not subject to EU law, taxation rules, or customs regulations. They generally still receive preferential trade relationships with EU members through the Overseas Countries and Territories Association, but are largely autonomous of the EU.
Most overseas territories of EU member states are actually OCTs, although the examples you mentioned are OMRs.
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u/Ask_for_me_by_name 15d ago
Doesn't the French constitution define all territories, overseas or not, the same as that of metropolitan France?
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u/WestonSpec 15d ago edited 15d ago
The overseas regions (French Guiana, Guadeloupe, Martinique, Mayotte, and Réunion) have the same constitutional status as metropolitan regions. All current overseas regions are Outermost Regions of the EU.
French Polynesia, Saint Barthélemy, Saint Martin, Saint Pierre and Miquelon, and Wallis and Futuna are defined separately as semi-autonomous overseas collectivities (or overseas country in the case of French Polynesia). New Caledonia and the uninhabited territories are also special cases.
With the exception of Saint Martin, all other French territories outside of the metropolitan and overseas regions are Overseas Countries and Territories. Despite being an overseas collectivity, Saint Martin is an OMR under EU law. But the Dutch territory of Sint Maarten is an OCT.
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u/_JPG97_ 15d ago
It's really interesting and beautiful. Almost surreal you can just drive there (with your car on a ferry of course) from Canada. I visited once on a school trip in Grade 7 but that's it. I wanted to go again before I finally moved away from home last year, but never got the chance. But I know I'll be back to Newoundland a lot so maybe I'll make a point to go back to SPM.
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u/Chuckleberry64 15d ago
I think this post would benefit from avoiding acronyms. Unless you only want people very familiar with "SPM" to participate in the discussion in which case you're doing well.
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u/_JPG97_ 15d ago
Well I mean you're probably right for EEZ, though I've seen it used here on this sub a lot without further context, but I wrote St Pierre and Miquelon first and then used SPM after. Thought the context was enough. My bad
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u/Infinite_Big5 14d ago
It was actually easy to reference SPM in your original comment. Whereas I have no idea what EEZ means
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u/french_snail 15d ago
It is I don’t know what this guys on about lol I’ve never heard of this place before and I can conclude SPM = name of island because I have at least three brain cells
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u/eghost57 15d ago
Took me a second but the first instance as "St Pierre and Miquelon (SPM)" would have helped.
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u/nicodicesarezoso 11d ago
Most islands in Parana river border between Argentina and Paraguay belong to Argentina, despite being in Paraguayan waters