r/northernireland • u/GraemeMark Ballymena • Mar 08 '24
At 37, I learned some things on this sub Political
I grew up protestant in Ballymena and being in this sub, which I think it’s not unfair to say is nationalist-leaning, you’d be amazed what I learned that no one ever talked about!
Amazingly, it was only a few weeks ago I realized there are kids in Belfast who grow up speaking Irish as a first language 🤷🏻♂️ The way I heard about it, the Irish language in the north was just a political talking point that no one actually speaks.
Also, the DUP had a terrorist wing—the UR? I never knew this; to me, Sinn Fein were the terrorist party and the DUP were good Christian boys 🤦🏻♂️ I never voted for them because I could see they were divisive, but this was astounding information to me!
What else was I sheltered from?! And what lies/half-truths are protestant kids all over NI being told?!
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Mar 25 '24
Do you know who (Sir) Roger Casement was? He went to Ballymena Academy, then joined the foreign office. Did a lot of work exposing discrimination and terrible worker conditions in Africa and South America for which he received a knighthood from the King. Came home and with fresh eyes saw the level of discrimination against Catholics and got involved in the republican movement. Went on to be one of the main organisers of the 1916 Easter rising. Was put in prison awaiting execution for treason. He had made a lot of influential friends during his career in the foreign office who initially campaigned to get him pardoned from execution on the grounds of his humanitarian work. But when his diary was leaked and it was found out he was gay all his support evaporated and he was executed for treason.
Some see him as a hero, some as a traitor, but regardless he was certainly an interesting character. If you know anyone who Went to Ballymena Academy ask them if they know the story of Roger Casement their fellow alumni. I suspect many don't as it breaks the protestant=unionist, Catholic = nationalist narrative.
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u/esquiresque Mar 11 '24 edited Mar 11 '24
There were British Lords & Earls in the United Irishmen. These fellas were pro-actively republican.
The tricolour is by french design - green representing United Irishmen, White for Peace and Orange for the Order.
A family friend, passed away now, was a former UDA member and a massive fan of The Dubliners.
"Protestant" folk originated from North England and Scotland, assigned 1000acre plantations commissioned the King of England. Hence the term "planter" (often used in a derogatory form)
Celtic folk were a nomadic folk originating in (what is now) Austria, having moved across Europe, because their salt mines flooded.
Ireland was made up of vikings and foreign tribes (ie Celts) conquering it at one stage or another across a few millennia. There's not really much in the way of arboreal folk here. Same with England. Bloody french, taking over England and inspiring a republic in Ireland.
The Orange Order started after a gang war with Catholic rivals "The Defenders". The Protestant gang, a faction of the "Peep o'Day Boys" established themselves in County Armagh.
"King Billy", aka William III, booted his Catholic father-in-law King James II off the throne, sending him into exile in Ireland. In an attempt to regain his title, James amassed his Jacobite army to battle in Drogheda against Billy's. Failure ensued. He went into further exile in France for the rest of his days. Hence the Protestants celebration of the battle at the banks of the river Boyne in Drogheda.
Germany and Northern Europe is largely responsible for the fuckshittery that occurred across medieval to early-modern history in Ireland.
At some stage or another, they all went back to Charlemagne's pad for tea and sandwiches. After all, invasion is exhausting, divisive work.
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u/LostinIsaan Mar 10 '24
You were never told that the police and politicians tell lies. You were never told that division tactics were used to split the working class and if you did not vote for UUP, DUP the 'Taigs' would get power, you would lose your job, the Church of Rome would rule and you would live in poor housing like the 'Taigs'.
Look around you and see your old schoolmates and how well/bad they are doing....... Then look at the politicians you voted for, are their cars, houses and way of life a dream for you??? They told you... "Vote for me, follow me and you will have all this" did that happen. Splitting the working class made the poor poorer and the rich richer.
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u/GraemeMark Ballymena Mar 10 '24
I don’t disagree—I lean towards the rich being the enemy in all of these matters—but I can’t pretend I was ever working class. My friends are doing OK.
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u/LostinIsaan Apr 25 '24
Hello GraemeMark. Apologies for late reply, but, I have been occupied with retirement.
You write that you cannot pretend to be working class?? Often folk say I were upper middle with my occupation (Ex Naval officer) then working abroad for many drilling companies doing commissioning work. Had the house a Jag and BM in the driveway.
Told anyone who would listen I were working class, cut my hands off, or gouge my eyes out I could not work so would lose everything.
Only those that can be kept in the same standard when losing eyes or limbs are upper class. There is no middle class, we are all workers, but, politicians have as behaving as snobs looking down on those beneath us in education and salary amount.
I benefitted from being perceived as I were, but, did I think it fair that people who put up with more discomfort than myself received less time off.
Apologies about the rant, retired to a rice growing area of Thailand aged 59, turning 69 this year and all my friends are Thai farmers, luckily I can converse with them, they see me as a worker just like themselves, using hands.
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u/Ronaldinhio Mar 09 '24
I grew up a halfen - my parents didn’t give a bollox about it
Each granny dragged us to mass or church and battered us for making the wrong moves whilst there.
I was amazed by Derry girls as my life was always a mix of Uber Catholic or Uber prod when we did wider family stuff but I didn’t realise it was quite so meaningfully different until there in Technicolor
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u/StunnedinTheSuburbs Mar 09 '24
OP, do you know the actual differences between Catholicism and Protestantism (like religious differences, not the space between our eyebrows)?
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Mar 09 '24
At 31, I found out that on the 13th of July a load of Orangemen dress up as Williamites and King Billy run around a field in Scarva to re-enact the Battle of the Boyle with plastic swords and stuff. They also drive down to Drogheda the night before the 12th and fill a big blue barrel full of water from the Boyne and pour it over the entry the field so that King Billy can accurately "cross the Boyne" before his victory..
I honestly could not stop thinking of that film Role Models tbh. Sounds like mad craic.
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u/VvoiDz Mar 09 '24
My girlfriend grew up Catholic in a staunchly loyalist town and her parents kind of raised her to avoid all aspects of Irishness to avoid problems. I grew up on the border so I've had to tell her who Dustin the Turkey and Podge and Rodge are because the RTE signal didn't reach too far north? She says she still gets a sense of belonging when we go down south or to my town, something about not seeing the Union jack and Israel flags makes her feel a bit more at ease.
Also on a personal note, only about 5 years ago did I even learn that Irish Republicanism was founded by Protestants. A lot of people would do well knowing this. It's not religious, it's a land issue.
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u/Cartepostalelondon Mar 09 '24
I'm English, a non-practicing (nominally) nonconformist Christian and wanted to say I've learned quite a lot just skimming this thread and that I'm sorry for any pain caused to any of you or your families (on either 'side' of the troubles).
And I don't mind admitting I've just had a little cry.
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u/GraemeMark Ballymena Mar 09 '24
Yeah it was weird to grow up in. I live abroad now and it gives me a lot of perspective.
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u/therouX Mar 09 '24
I come from a protestant background and I lived in the village for a few years with my then girlfriend now wife and our then baby daughter, the street we lived in had a bomb scare, and there a was a murder one street over. My dad was not concerned. We moved to west Belfast and my dad said we better be careful because everyone will know a protestant lives there now and they'll take any excuse to cause trouble and I'm probably on a list now etc etc, nothing bad happened, the end.
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u/Jazzlike_Base5705 Mar 09 '24
Grew up in a loyalist area. Was always told themmuns eyes were too close together. Found out when I went to an integrated secondary school, it turned out to be true.
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u/GrowthDream Mar 09 '24 edited Mar 09 '24
Here's one for you.
It's East Belfast, 1974. My parents are just married, after having grown up in the area. My father's served his time and learned a trade. He worked first for a company who later changed their structure, so that when his contract ended he was offered a position as a contractor, meaning he would have to register as a business and become self employed while doing the same work for the same company.
Anyway, that's all background.
On the 14th of May that year there was a knock at the door. Two men were there who introduced himself as being from the Ulster Army Council. They told him there was going to be a strike and that he wouldn't be going to work tomorrow, basically said they had to let everyone in the area know, and then left.
He decided he didn't want to be intimidated, he couldn't afford to, being self employed. So the next day he got up to go to work, but he saw that the street had been blocked off. There were trucks parked sideways at either end of the street and the two heavies were there to question anyone going in or out.
He couldn't quite believe it, so he went up and explained he was going for milk. They allowed this and he saw that every street on the road was blocked off in a similar fashion. He was an amateur photographer and managed to take a few pictures from the hip, which he developed himself and showed to me a quarter of a century later.
The history books write of the Ulster Workers' Council strike as a great show of unionist cooperation and organisation. This always annoyed him greatly as he knew he and others had been given no choice but to cooperate.
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u/zeromalarki Mar 09 '24
I think if you're on a trail of nasty DUP stuff, you can look at the old school fire and brimstone "Catholics have more kids to get more benefits" nonsense.
Wild
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u/Vanessa-Powers Mar 09 '24 edited Mar 09 '24
As an Irish person from Dublin, I’ve learned a lot from this sub too. I think more people down south are learning a lot more about you folks in the last 5+ years than ever before. Thanks to social media, but also to regular media, and travel. We are travelling in our droves to Belfast for the craic. It’s well known down here that Belfast is the place to be (and Galway) if you want to have a good time with good people.
Anyway, the other thing I’ve learned a lot about us unionism, and all that entails. I didn’t know how completely nuanced it was until I seen the Andrew Trimble documentary on RTE. That was fascinating. The insight I got from that on what it means to be from a unionist tradition in the north was honestly eye opening to me. It didn’t just mean you were automatically political and hate Irish people like I thought. It meant so many different things. Some felt British, some Irish and British and others Northern Irish etc. But away from identity it meant even more than just being a singular identity - that’s what struck me. I think I still am ignorant on the north and especially on ‘unionists’ (using that term as all encompassing of one ‘side’ which I’m sure isn’t how it’s supposed to be used by you get me.. much like that joke of ‘are you a Catholic or Protestant, nah I’m Muslim, oh right.. are you a Catholic Muslim or a Protestant Muslim then’).
I feel like I want to go up and visit some of these places and see the history and talk to locals. Part of me feels like this is a part of Ireland I always ignored but knew was there. I ignored it out of pure ignorance. Because I seen it as a part of the island that hates me and hates anything Irish so therefore it’s not worth thinking about. I’m totally wrong and feel like an idiot for thinking this way!
I think more people need to get up off their arses and go to the other side of the island and just talk to people, see the history and look at how diverse and majestic this island truly is. The history on it is nothing short of FASCINATING.
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u/ryanfeud Mar 09 '24
Learned that my grandad wasn't checking for oil leaks every morning before taking me to school. That was the saddest one for me.
Glad we're past all that.
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u/sythingtackle Mar 09 '24
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u/GraemeMark Ballymena Mar 09 '24
Wild 😔
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u/sythingtackle Mar 09 '24
Even wilder is that he’s holding an ak47 on the Israeli / Lebanon border.
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u/UpThem Mar 09 '24
The old Ballymena Council was an absolute zoo. Overt sectarianism and absolute young earth mentalness running rampant on a weekly basis.
All Saints GAC are thriving now, but Ballymena Council went to enormous lengths to stop them getting off the ground.
Michelin and Gallaghers operated non-sectarian employment practices, including banning fleg displays on the 12th (these were common in other local employers, and designed to intimidate the few Catholics able to get jobs there). Ian Paisley went to Gallagher Head Quarters in France to try to get them to change their mind. They told him to foutre le camp.
The Harryville protest was a stain on the community, though in fairness Cllr James Currie led other unionists by example in standing up to the bigots. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/the-town-where-hatred-burns-stronger-than-hope-in-ballymena-1313476.html
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u/GraemeMark Ballymena Mar 09 '24
I went to school with the sons of both James Currie and Jim Allister. I do remember this, although I was only 10 years old.
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u/UpThem Mar 12 '24
A grim time, though they would have been interesting class mates.
As was the pipebomb campaign following the Good Friday Agreement. Isolated Catholics in Balymena, Ahoghill, Cloughmills, Larne, Coleraine, etc being targeted by loyalists petrified of peace.
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u/GraemeMark Ballymena Mar 13 '24
Currie was very likeable and thoughtful; Allister was a smug ass 🤷🏻♂️
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u/Reasonable-Unit-2623 Mar 09 '24
The old Craigavon Borough Council was the same - ran by a bunch of old bigots, they blocked a local GAA club in the 1980s from getting a lease on a piece of land for a pitch (it was behind Brownlow House Orange Lodge and obviously they couldn’t be looking out the windows at a bunch of fenians playing slap ball). They were of course taken to court and found guilty, having to pay compensation.
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u/UpThem Mar 12 '24
Crazy how recently the mental sectarian discrimination went on until. Chaining the swings up for the Sabbath was the famous one, but depriving the GAA of facilities was the norm, and plastering council buildings, leisure centres, etc in Ballymena/Belfast/wherever Says No to the Anglo Irish Agreement. All that was done knowing it'd send a message to our community that we weren't welcome.
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u/snuggl3ninja Mar 09 '24
My 60yr old neighbour is Presbyterian and his wife is Roman Catholic. He's a grumpy bully of a man. His kids all went to the catholic school. He sits out his back every 12th with the band music on the radio listening to.an organisation that wouldn't accept him because of his wife and kids.
I think I understand him less than I do the people who are in the OO or their opposites on the republican side.
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u/viprus Mar 09 '24
I'm 35, grew up in a Catholic family.
My dad still has shrapnel in his spine from when loyalists threw a pipe bomb in the window at a Catholic pub where he was drinking.
My older brother used to be held at gunpoint by British soldiers every morning on the school bus because the bus was going to a Catholic school.
When I was a kid we pretty much thought that the IRA were "freedom fighters", "resistance" and such. Maybe there was a point in history where that was true.
I grew up at just the right time to pretty much not experience the troubles. Despite everything that happened my parents raised me saying that we were all equals, didn't try to brainwash me with anything. Maybe I was just sheltered.
Turns out there are assholes on both sides. Most of the fighting we still have today is done by people who just want to fight and try to find excuses afterwards. Like people going to Celtic v Rangers for a fight and a football match breaks out.
Bad stuff has happened on both sides in the past, let's just leave it there where it belongs.
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u/Killer_Penguins19 Mar 09 '24
My granddad was a protestant from Belfast and I was interested to see where he was from. But when I visited I avoided telling people about this (not that it would happen) but more on the safe side as I was worried about encountering problems if I told the wrong person. Needless to say nothing bad happened on the trip anyway. But was strange to still see the peace walls around the place.
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u/Future-Atmosphere-40 Mar 09 '24
We all grow up in a bubble.
We and ours are "the good guys" in our own narrative.
The important thing is you're opening up to new things.
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u/BawdyBadger Mar 09 '24
The thing is I think most people who grow up in a fairly open and non fundamentalist Protestant family have the Are we the baddies? Moment about certain things.
It happened to me. While I would still wish NI to be part of the UK for now. I would be open to listening to valid reasons for and against a realistic UI. As to other loyalist "culture" I find a lot of it distasteful at best.
I had a fairly sheltered childhood with not that much interaction with other Catholic children except for a few cross community school trips and events.
Overall Uni was quite a shock meeting people that had massively different views on sports and politics than yourself. I became friends with a lot of them.
I definitely think there should be more mixing and understanding at a younger age.
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u/Different_Onion Mar 09 '24
He IRA and UR were both terrorist groups but only one of them slaughtered 1800 people from their own community
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u/CocoPopsKid Belfast Mar 09 '24
Can we fucking pin this thread to the sub as a “I was raised X, but realised after deprogramming that the other side is actually dead on and the same as us” post please? Far too many of us were raised with wool over our eyes, and I feel like this would be illuminating
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u/EireOfTheNorth Lurgan Mar 09 '24
The DUP had three terrorist wings. Ian Paisley founded three. Not one, not two, but three armed paramilitary forces that committed bombings, assassinations, and armed attacks.
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Mar 09 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/EireOfTheNorth Lurgan Mar 09 '24
Ian Paisley founded the DUP, Ulster Resistance, Ulster Protestant Volunteers and the Third Force
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u/Weeblewobbly Mar 09 '24 edited Mar 09 '24
I'm a blown in. I moved to northern Ireland a few months before the good Friday agreement was signed. When sharing my plans to move to northern Ireland, my aunt's reaction was " why? There's a war there!" The first and only time she heard of the place was in the news because of the drumcree shenanigans that summer. All I knew about it was what I saw in the telly: a few old boys jiggling their fake swords at the police. Seemed pretty stupid and harmless. Coming from Europe, I must say it was a bit of a shock. I thought I'd gone back in time: the living standards seemed more like developing country levels. Is never lived somewhere without central heating or double glazing. That didn't deter me though, because people were shockingly awesome, genuine and nice. It helped that there were hardly any strangers about at the time so I got lots of positive attention. Also I was shocked of the lack of diversity. White people only, wtf. Anyway, all this to say, the nonsense in this country comes from ignorance. The best summary of it is that blackboard in Derry girls. That's it. That's the troubles.
This lark of having prod and cathlic school is a complete melt that just breeds ignorance at the youngest age. Say what you will about it but that is the truth. I know it's not going to happen, but for as long as the present system is in place, there will be idiots who take it to the extreme.
To end on a positive note, I've lived the majority of my life, not because of the weather, strangely enough, but because this place has something special. Coming from big city in a big European country, things felt oddly human. Human scale, and every single interaction felt genuine, like speaking to a human being. I was never made to feel like a stranger. In contrast, at "home" I never felt like I belonged. Some of this has definitely faded, but it's still there.
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u/Shankill-Road Mar 08 '24
Nationalist leaning 🤣🤣
The DUP did not have a terrorist wing, they had the odd person who put a berry on & then shit themselves & run.
Decisive 🤣🤣Sectarian Sinn Fein is a Terrorist Killing & Apologist Propaganda Machine in its entirety, & has even killed over 60 people, Andrew Kearney, Robert McCartney, J J OcConnor, Paul Quinn, Kevin McGuigan etc etc after their ceasefires
The way you heard about it, way way way up their in the country no doubt where post is still delivered by pigeon concerning the Irish Language, is no doubt the same as you’ve heard about Polish, Chinese, Slovakian etc too eh
37, what months.
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u/Reasonable-Unit-2623 Mar 09 '24
Always good to have some drunken, bedsit-dwelling cretin on hand for a bit of balance.
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u/GraemeMark Ballymena Mar 09 '24
No veď trochu viem po slovensky aj ja 😉 Z tak ďaleka, vyzerá to všetko strašne malé 🤷🏻♂️
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u/scrummiescraps Mar 09 '24 edited Mar 09 '24
You should read each paragraph as soon as you finish it to make sure you're not talking shite before moving on to the next one
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u/Craic_dealer90 Mar 08 '24
No joke OP but this is generally the same about all all cultures, religions and societies
Humans are pre-programmed to go with the social norm and not question their existence
Unless people open their minds and hearts we will never know what else is out there (including other cultures, religions and societies), which can teach us ALOT
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Mar 08 '24
[deleted]
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u/Forward_Artist_6244 Mar 09 '24
I'm a an atheist "prod" but married a Catholic lady, raising the kids as such as she wants to see them do sacraments and that.
We live in a nationalist village with a GAA club, my daughter plays camogie and my wife is getting into it too. I've never been made to feel unwelcome, though I wouldn't be confident in offering help by volunteering.
I've only felt unwelcome/unease when I took my daughter to a camogie blitz at a place near Portaferry, but I'll chalk it down to a one off and try not to go there again.
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u/Loose_Reference_4533 Mar 09 '24
I think what confused me about that viewpoint is why wouldn't the GAA get a large proportion of the funding available? They are the largest sporting organisation with the largest membership by far. The grants are mostly funded by the tax payer and GAA fans pay tax too. Why shouldn't we get funding? Why isn't this argument raised about other sporting clubs. The vibe is "we can't just let them have funding".... And it makes no sense to me.
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u/mcolive Mar 09 '24
Yeah I agree too although I think there is something to be said for the "build it and they will come" approach to some sports.
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u/_BreadBoy Mar 08 '24
Terrance O'neil gets a bad Rep by unionists (for those who even know he existed) but if NI had gone with his leadership we likley would never of had a war. irish people would have been given civil rights earlier and would likley feel more at home with the UK (or atleast Northern ireland) and there would never have been a strong push for a united ireland. that only got new life into it after burntoilet/bogside.
https://www.wesleyjohnston.com/users/ireland/past/history/19631969.html
another one is probly wolfetone, the band really didnt help here but he was a protestant and advocated for the protestant miority to rasie the catholic population up so that they would be able to resist englands domination. that way protestants would rule ireland with the backing of the catholics and would have control over that happened on the island, more like a member of the commonwealth.
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u/lisaslover Mar 08 '24
Either read or buy the audio book Long Walk To Freedom.
I am an Irish Republican. Always have been, always will be.
That being parroted, regurgitated and repeated there was another provider on here earlier. As much as I despise what has been done, is allowed to happen. There is only one way out of this shithole.
We have to join together. Prods and Taigs Loyalists and Republicans Nationalists and Unionists.
There is no other way out of this mess.
Just as an aside and maybe a peek at how depressing this can all get... when I was a shitty nappy production line in the early 70s my eldest brother apparently turned to my da and said "it isnt so bad daddy, when I am your age it will all be finished"
That was a child in the 70,s
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u/Finance_Worried Mar 08 '24
I didn't meet a Catholic until I went to tech lol how sad is that
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Mar 12 '24
I'm from the South and didn't meet a Northern Protestant for the first time until I was 23. Crazy to think that's possible on such a small island.
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u/VeryDerryMe Mar 09 '24
Same, I didn't meet a Protestant until my first day at Queens. From East Belfast, and once I told them I was from Derry, they didn't speak to me again for the remainder of the 4 year degree.
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u/Alarming_Location32c Mar 08 '24
Mr Resident troll - why you flaring up today? What’s triggered this behaviour 😂😂
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u/Which_Read7471 Mar 08 '24
More than people speaking garlic at home in Belfast - Turas (journey), is an outfit in East Belfast which shines a light on the fact that many protestants and loyalists spoke gaelic at home right up to the 1920s. It makes perfect sense as a lot had Scots garlic heritage - but cultural nationalism, the partitioning of Ireland and the war of independence saw a shunning of the language. Some interesting research they did on this page about WW1 soldiers who spoke Irish as their first language.
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u/Alarming_Location32c Mar 08 '24
Lmfao, which one of you fuckers posted this? 😂😂😂😂😂😂
Lads away into overdrive today hmmmm
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u/Illustrious_Dog_4667 Mar 08 '24
I'm from North Dublin. Married a Dublin Protestant woman. Went to a lot of church services in St John's, Coolock. Beautiful church, lots of WW1 stuff on the walls. Her family are mad hurling fans.
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Mar 08 '24
I learned a lot of the same stuff from going with a Catholic for 9 years as a "protestant" atheist. I didn't know they learned a whole different history from us. That relationship broke up 5+ years ago and I would consider myself a nationalist now.
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u/macdaibhi03 Mar 08 '24
Here's one a lot of people on both sides don't seem to know. My Catholic mum grew up in a now notoriously loyalist area. When the troubles first kicked off, my grandfather joined his protestant neighbours in patrolling the local area against sectarian attacks from either side. These types of groups had far more members than the paramilitaries at one point. Some of them became known as "citizen defense committees", others were affiliated with Trade Unions. For example, in Harland and Wolfe, thousands of shipyard workers voted to condemn the slide towards sectarian conflict. They also formed their own defense groups which escorted workers safely to/from work.
Despite the bitter pain of division in our history, there are many inspirational stories of unity for the common goal of peace.
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u/Ok-Entrepreneur1885 Mar 08 '24
From a slightly different angle.
I'm scottish. From the lesser salubrious areas of glasgow. So yeah, the sectarian shite I grew up with. But I had zero interest in which put me off football for life. Many other sports out there to keep a young man happy in scotland.
Moved over in about 1999 with a few years working in high end tech.
1st job was in Belfast for a tech company that done security solutions for companies/ individuals.
Long story short I was doing a presentation to stormont on what we provided and its uses, got to meet the main figures at the time and was talking to Ian paisley. Usual questions where you from school football team etc. But as I went to a non discript academy and honestly don't follow football. He laughed very hard at my answers and said I had an answer for everything and we should meet again.
Job done.
Back at the office a few days later on break with 2 other it lads one from Ballymena direction protestant chap and the other from around enniskillen and catholic. (I'm not religious) got asking about it all. Over the conversation the Catholic guy said Ian was sound out due to providing houses for catholics in his constituency during the troubles. My guy from Ballymena couldn't believe that catholics didn't hate him and thought he was the devil incarnate. The other guy informed him, lots of catholics loved Ian for what he had done on a personal level and it was no surprise him and mcguinness were being called the chuckle brothers.
Mad how people talking calms everything the press had stirred up over so long.
BTW. Did meet Ian again in private at a gym of all places after a few weeks Nd gave me a great amount of advice on n.i and in general.
Along with a round down of my family and what religion I was. He still laughed like fuck at my innocence of it. I have fond memories of him.
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u/Forward_Artist_6244 Mar 09 '24
I once worked with a Catholic from a village near Ballymena who, I found strangely, respected Ian Paisley as he claimed he would fight for your corner for local issues no matter your background
I saw him once around the turn of the millennium at a suit shop in Belfast city centre, he had a couple of what looked like Asian businessmen with him, presumably showing them the local suits to tempt inward investment? Anyhow he was a lot shorter than I expected.
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u/Barilla3113 Mar 10 '24
Yeah that's what I've heard from one of my lecturers that met him back in the day during the peace process. Apparently he treated all constituents who came to him with issues the same without reference to their ethno-religious background and was actually quite charming to talk to so long as you kept the conversation away from religion and politics.
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u/telephas1c Mar 08 '24
Fair play to you for paying attention to the real world and updating your mind to reflect it. Not being patronising. Depressingly few people do this.
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u/frairetuck Mar 08 '24 edited Mar 09 '24
It’s because Catholics are taught history of Ireland at school and Protestants are taught propaganda about Britain. Catholics tend to see it as “In order to know where where’re going, we need to know where we came from”. Protestants seem to learn about the history of Unionism and celebrating ancient battles where mass murder of thousands of people and animals took place. Catholics laugh that they’re called Fenians because that word is derived from the Gaelic words féinne or fianna, which means soldier; so their insult is actually a compliment in a way.
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u/UppaPeelersYeoow Mar 08 '24
I found out this week the DUP have turned a corner and shown respect towards their mortal enemies it seems. Seeing ELP hurling and poots speaking irish I'll tell you something... A little respect goes a long way and fair play to them.
They have everything to gain from these recent actions and nothing to lose except malignant fcuks like alaister and bin boy
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u/_Raspberry_Ice_ Mar 08 '24
I have learned how to make an Indian restaurant grade curry in half an hour. I also learned how to make a great Irish stew and started to take my mental wellbeing seriously based off of conversations on this sub (not a sly dig or attempt at humour).
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u/Wallname_Liability Craigavon Mar 08 '24
Wheaten bread is actually soda bread
Britain isn’t the mainland, like either we are or Europe is.
The troubles could have ended in 1974 if it wasn’t for Paisley and co
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u/ondinegreen Mar 08 '24
Eh... Paisley and his idiot mates brought down Sunningdale but I don't think Sunningdale would have stopped the Provos
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u/ImJustABartender Mar 08 '24
I think you would have been sheltered from the fact that a United Ireland isn't gonna be all that different from what we have now.
Anyone who thinks that the UI is gonna be anything other than a huge renaming project is gonna be sadly mistaken.
PSNI Changes to Garda HMRC to Revenue Office
Etc etc etc.
We all know the Orange Orders and the like isn't going anywhere. The same roads you march down this year or any year will still be there in a UI.
But the main thing for me that has become apparent is that although Catholics have historically been oppressed by Protestants in NI, the vast majority of us don't want a UI that would oppress Unionists, including the OO etc.
I want a UI. Always have and always will. But I will not accept one that surpresses or oppresses protestant OO culture. Ireland is yours too, even if you don't want it.
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u/gorman1982 Mar 09 '24
Well said.
But can we pick a few from each side to oppress? Just for old times sake. I'm thinking from themmuns Jamie Bryson, Jim Alister, Jolene Bunting, Tom Smyth and Chazzy Shankill.
Open to negotiate. Who are we oppressing from our side?
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u/gorman1982 Mar 09 '24
Actually can I throw some more into the mix? Not sure what side they're from but can we oppress every one of those new "restaurant discoverers" on Instagram? You know the ones where every video starts with "Just outside Larne, there's this little cake you must try...". They all speak with North Down accents and seem to think £15 for a sandwich is reasonable.
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u/ImJustABartender Mar 09 '24
OK OK we can have SOME oppression. But what about if one of the OO start a restaurant discovery page? Well have to set up an indepentant commission where restaurant discoverers can apply to discover a restaurant. They will have to decide if it is a Restaurant Discovery video or a loose collection of relatively unheard of food outlets. Undoubtedly the commission will of course make everything worse. 😂😂
Edit: A Pie Raids Commission if you will 🧐
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u/studyinthai333 Mar 08 '24
Here's my experience that absolutely nobody asked for:
I'm a half n' half; my dad's a presbyterian from the North and my mum was raised Roman Catholic in the south.
I grew up in a predominantly DUP area full of culchies and chavs alike, but I would go stay with mum's relatives down south on the holidays then go back to school. I was friends with a group of people whose parents were also from the south or England etc, and unsurprisingly we all got picked on by both pupils and teachers who were able to suss out that we weren't locals. For example when I was in primary school my mum proudly bought me am O'Neills sports cap with her/our county crest sewn onto it and she made me wear it to school in the summer months, and some girl on the school bus asked us about them and teased us for weeks after by calling me 'Cork girl'. For the first time I was too embarrassed of being half-southern and didn't wear the cap after that, and my mum thought we didn't like them so that is something I feel guilty about now. Unfortunately the caps were child-sized, so it's not like I can wear it again.
Anyway, now I'm proud to be crossbred. And reading about people's experiences in this sub makes me realise how sheltered some of my peer's upbringings were.
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u/Pablo_Eskobar Mar 09 '24
Can I ask what are your feelings on a united ireland?
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u/studyinthai333 Mar 09 '24
I lot of my Cork friends and family ask me this. I feel like a United ireland would be ideal, but wouldn’t happen in my lifetime. There’s talk of Northern Ireland also becoming the next Singapore, which I think is a rather interesting take even if that probably won’t happen in my lifetime either…
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u/tigerjack84 Mar 09 '24
I’m the same (although dad RC from Belfast, and mum Presbyterian from outside of belfast). I always said it stood us in good stead. We are able to have the best of both worlds.
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u/Superb_Survey_2802 Mar 09 '24
So you are well landed and financially bonified but you are still good craic?
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u/hipposaregood Mar 09 '24
I'm glad of it nowadays but I remember feeling a bit lonely with it when I was little. Working class Belfast in the 90s wasn't always welcoming of ambiguity. "Are yiz a Protestant half-Jaff or a Catholic half-Jaff?" "...yes?"
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u/tigerjack84 Mar 09 '24
I used to hate the half and half stuff.. I used to say ‘I have no religion’ but now I’m older, I actually like the half and half.
It’s funny.. I live in a predominately Protestant area and any time the ‘catholic’ side comes out.. ‘ah that’s the Catholic in you coming out’ lol..
I am also equally as comfortable in either side church services.. but was super jealous of my best friend having her communion (I wanted a tiny wedding dress with my photo done lol) and that from that moment on she was allowed to have wine and jeesits when I wasn’t allowed..
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u/studyinthai333 Mar 10 '24
I still say that I have no religion but only because I wasn’t raised with one. When I was younger I used to lie and say that my parents took me to an exclusive church or temple on Sundays when actually they would take us on walks.
Oh god yes, all the wee girls who got to have their photo taken in the white dress 😭 one of my cousins from the south even used his communion money to buy a Nintendo DS which made me even more jealous.
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u/tigerjack84 Mar 12 '24
Aww that’s a lovely memory going on walks 😍 ohh I didn’t even realise the money thing until more recently or I’d have been doubly jealous also lol
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u/studyinthai333 Mar 12 '24
Yeah, it was nice to spend Sunday mornings reflecting in nature rather than having to sit on a arse-numbing cold pew for an hour and a half and be told that I’m to be destined for eternal damnation etc.
To be fair, my cousin’s family (not my mum’s side obviously) were well to-do and his dad (my aunt’s husband) is a millionaire property developer with lots of rich friends.
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u/studyinthai333 Mar 09 '24
I remember that feeling. I was raised agnostic and grew up wondering why all my school friends went to Presbyterian Sunday school and why my other friends at extracurricular activities outside of school got to drink wine and eat communion wafers.
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u/hipposaregood Mar 09 '24
My parents had the same view, which both sets of grandparents interpreted as 'have her baptised on the sly and take her to church whenever they're not looking.' Pure slapstick.
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u/studyinthai333 Mar 09 '24
My grandparents loved us even if they thought we were heathen bastard children (my parents got married after I was born). My RC granny took me to mass and definitely would’ve preferred if I chose God, but I now that I’m a well rounded adult I think she’s over it.
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u/Major-Capital-3739 Mar 08 '24
Interesting, I'm from Cork, my wife is from up north, we live up north now, we have a child who's fucking awesome, but too young to understand nationalism, backgrounds, etc.
I wear a cork city jersey when I play 5 a side every week, with predominantly super-unionosts.
"Track back there bai if you want any hope of a united Arland hai"
Hopefully things are improving like.
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u/studyinthai333 Mar 08 '24
Cool! Which part of Cork are you from? My mum is from the city.
I think things definitely are better than they were, I just grew up in an area with narrow-minded people who didn’t bother to educate their kids or instilled their own beliefs on them.
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u/Major-Capital-3739 Mar 11 '24
I'm from Turners Cross.
Tbh my wife and I have worked our holes off, we come from working class backgrounds, but and now manage to live in a pure posh part of the country, so I guess we're meeting other posh cunts, who are more concerned about golf and ISA's than marching and a United Ireland.
So for this bubble, I guess it's a great place for my daughter to grow up, I feel really uncomfortable in this environment though, even though people are really sound, I dunno, I struggle with it, it's a mixture of working class guilt and definitely wanting a UI.
There's also a hard balance to strike too, I want my daughter to have an Irish Identity, without becoming a bigot.
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u/Jenn54 Mar 09 '24
This sounds like my experience growing up in the countryside of cork in the late nineties
The teachers and students alike bullied the 'foreigners' in the small school
Their 'sin'? Being born in England
The method of bullying was getting them to pronounce words correctly and then the bully kids would mimic it back and laugh.
I remember just watching that as a kid and thinking how surreal and stupid it was.
The only thing wrong with the kid was there was nothing wrong with him.
Tribalism is weird.
Seems you guys had the same attitudes up there but in the reverse
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u/studyinthai333 Mar 09 '24
Cork people bullied an English person from England into pronouncing English words ‘correctly’? Lol.
I think that every place has people who reject anything that’s alien to them.
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u/Jenn54 Mar 09 '24 edited Mar 09 '24
Oh I mean, the English kid was saying the word correctly, the right enunciation etc, but that was not how people talked in Cark, so the English kid was bullied for knowing how to say words correctly
The teachers said nothing but had a smug look at the interaction, so as the adults they were complicit, endorsing it at least
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u/studyinthai333 Mar 09 '24
Yes, I know what you mean. It’s just that ironic because he’s more English than them.
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u/Time-Reindeer-7525 Mar 09 '24
I had a weird opposite/variant of this - dad's from Ballymoney, mum's half-Belfast/half-Coventry and raised on the Welsh border. Mum came over to Queens in 68 (with hindsight...) and never really left. She ended up with a mix of an accent between West Country and Belfast. I inherited this.
The amount of shite I got from people for sounding too English, along with being regularly told to piss off back to England because I wasn't Norn Irish enough by the kids in my school, was unreal.
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u/chipoatley USA Mar 08 '24
Thanks for sharing this. I’m writing a story (fiction) and the protagonist is a character with a background similar to yours. If you don’t mind I’m going to crib some of your experiences and make them hers.
“Good artists copy, great artists steal.” - Pablo Picasso (purportedly)
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u/Naoise007 Coleraine Mar 08 '24 edited Mar 08 '24
I've often wondered how many people in this sub write, bet it's quite a few. I'd definitely read them. I wrote a short novel myself based in London but with a character from Ballymena in it as a mate of mine (technically from Crossmaglen but living in Ballymena for a long time when i met him) demanded i put him in my next book lol. I'm worried i've written him badly and he just comes across as an englishman with a bit too much Ballymena slang though 🙁
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u/studyinthai333 Mar 08 '24
I’ve do creative writing and scripts too etc, but my own nationality isn’t really something I’d ever think of touching upon even though I probably have a unique background.
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u/Naoise007 Coleraine Mar 09 '24
It's fair enough not everyone wants to talk/write about it. Personally i'm always interested in people's own stories wherever they're from but i'm also very wary of being intrusive and i'm not into "trauma porn" or "misery tourism". But like you say a lot of experience is unique and most people do just want to understand experiences so different from their own
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u/studyinthai333 Mar 09 '24
Exactly. To be honest, having autism was much more traumatic for me than growing up with a split nationality in a divisive political region.
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u/chipoatley USA Mar 08 '24
The slang makes him a local. Most of the rest is typical human. ;-)
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u/Naoise007 Coleraine Mar 09 '24
True enough, i just worry there's too much and he comes across as a caricature which is not what i want at all. That mate of mine has promised to read it but he's a flaky bastard and still hasn't lol
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u/bow_down_whelp Mar 08 '24
When you were growing up, there really wasn't anyone speaking Irish as a first language. The prevelance was somewhat noteworthy from 2005 and has been on the up since then.
I am not religious and I don't like being put in a category because I do not believe in religion and am a firm egalitarian and believe that science is the only way forward as a country and species. There are some awfully bitter people and they just need to get on with it.
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u/macdaibhi03 Mar 08 '24
While I agree with the general point you're making, I think you'd be surprised how many people in the 35 years + age bracket that were raised speaking Irish. I'm not one of them, but I know quite a few who are.
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u/bow_down_whelp Mar 09 '24
I dont and I grew up with them. Bunscoil really only came into itself around that 2005 mark.
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u/macdaibhi03 Mar 09 '24
Bunscoil Phobail Feirste was founded in 1971. And there were families raising their children with Irish in the Shaws Road Gaeltacht since before that. Most current IME schools were established pre-2005. I agree there has been significant progress made in the past 20 years, but it was built on many years of incremental progress before that, which included many families raising their children with Irish.
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u/bow_down_whelp Mar 09 '24
Having worked with children for 20 years it was about the 2005 mark that I started having to deal with kids that actually had very poor English to the point where they couldn't actually read the fairly basic content to complete the tasks. They had learned irish as their first language
Its leaps and bounds above now, where id say the kids are actually probably smarter on the whole that'll their primarily English speaking piers, which is fantastic and the program should be blown up and all kids should be doing it. Who wouldn't want to learn another language for free at the perfect age to be learning it ?
Aside from that, the program from my perspective, may as well not have existed in 1971 or any other year before that because I didn't know shit about it. You were more likely to know Latin in 1971, let's be real. If its not in the public eye then it may as well not exist so for me, around 2005, seeing thousands of children a year from multiple schools, was when I noticed a big mainstream uptake in Irish as a first language. Any "achtually" random year and address doesn't give it anymore credibility from my own perspective. All in all I am glad it has happened. We're an island of poets and scholars and it should all be expanded
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u/macdaibhi03 Mar 09 '24
Any "achtually" random set of personal experiences from an arbitrary timeframe is called anecdotes, not evidence. Anyway, you agree with my original point. You are surprised to hear that there are many adults aged 35+ who were raised with Irish. Because you didn't notice them. Maybe you only started noticing in 2005 because you only started working with children in 2004. Beir bua a chara!
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u/bow_down_whelp Mar 09 '24
Absolutely never said anything other than my personal experiences. Never alluded to any evidence base because this is not a court and I don't care. I know no adults whatsoever raised as Irish as a first language and that's all I really care enough to base it off considering I work with the community with a lot of different stakeholders. I know plenty who done it to A-level and uni and are proficient, but it was not a first language which is the only thing I have talked about. Regardless, I think it is brilliant that these options exist. We aren't a very multilinginual people and I find embarrasing over our european counterparts
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u/macdaibhi03 Mar 09 '24
"The prevelance was somewhat noteworthy from 2005" is suggestive of more than personal experience. Hence my reply.
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u/GraemeMark Ballymena Mar 08 '24
Ah right thanks… interesting 🤔
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u/bow_down_whelp Mar 08 '24
Maybe... It's a big world and northern ireland is like a US bible belt state
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u/Altruistic-Pin8578 Mar 08 '24
I find this community surprisingly uplifting, people are starting to blossom up that neck of the woods.
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u/Chemical-Outside8309 Mar 08 '24
grew up a prod and new early on the Ra were fighting invaders doesn't take a rocket scientist must have been about 15 when i caught on . My social circle was mixed between catholic and protestant not a single fuck given so i had absolutely no bias
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u/askmac Mar 08 '24 edited Mar 08 '24
u/GraemeMark Also, the DUP had a terrorist wing—the UR? I never knew this; to me, Sinn Fein were the terrorist party and the DUP were good Christian boys
Far from their only terrorist wing. Members of the DUP (formerly Protestant Unionist Party) and the UUP (also known as the Official Unionist party and formerly UCC) were directly involved in the founding of virtually every main Loyalist Terrorist group.
Ian Paisley snr (along with Noel Doherty and Gusty Spence) was involved with (deep breath) the UPV, UCDC, UVF, UDA, UC, UULF, UR and ULCCC to name but a few. Another notable conspirator at the time was William McGrath, the serial pedophile rapist and house master at Kincora; the MI5 pedo honey trap.
Paisley et al planned and funded the first bombings of "the troubles" carried out by Loyalist paramilitaries but blamed on the IRA via Paisley's Protestant Telegraph and other complicit media outlets at a time when the Provisional IRA did not exist. And this was all a backlash by at least half of political Unionism against the embryonic idea that Catholics should be given equal rights.
Paisley Snr is believe to have funded, or channeled funds for the Dublin and Monaghan Bombings, the most deadly attack of the troubles. Robin Jackson, a member of the UDR and UVF, and a state agent responsible for more murders in NI than any other individual was believed to have been involved with the Dublin and Monaghan bombings as well as the Miami Showband Massacre and several other mass murders. Ian Paisley was at James Mitchell's farm in Armagh, the same farm where the Dublin and Monaghan bombings were believed to have been prepped but left a meeting the instant criminality was discussed.
That's the same farm used by The Glenanne Gang (comprised of serving RUC, UDR, British Army, MI5 and Loyalists) to store weapons and plan the murders of innocent Catholics in Armagh. The same farm where British Army regularly met with Loyalist paramilitaries in the 70s and 80s. Same farm where the RUC acted as security for Loyalists when they were moving weapons. Same farm where Czech AK-47s imported from South Africa by the DUP were stored after they were "lost" by MI5, after Jim Shannon (DUP) and Emma Little Pengelly's father, stole weapons secrets from a Territorial Army base to sell to the South Africans allegedly. Same farm where those assault rifles were shipped out to Orange Halls from. Same farm Willie Frazer collected the weapons from before supplying them to Johnny Adair whose C-Company used them in over 100 murders. Same Willie Frazer who Arlene Foster read a eulogy for at his funeral, a funeral which was attended by nearly every.single.unionist mp and MLA.
Dozens of other prominent Unionist political figures including David Trimble were involved with Ulster Vanguard, a fascist organisation who planned to "liquidate" the enemies of Ulster.
An unknowable number of Unionist politicians were members of the "Ulster Loyalist Central Coordinating Committee" or ULCCC, a group of politicians, bankers, businessmen, police, journalists, news media magnates, Orange / Loyal Orders and Loyalist terrorists who met since the late 1960s to target and assassinate Catholics, - , using intelligence supplied the RUC.
https://youtu.be/tYMsdDwE768?si=RQihOKdco_7MIh03&t=1470
First Ministers David Trimble, Ian Paisley and Peter Robinson were all members of terrorist organisations
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u/lisaslover Mar 08 '24
Holy fuck I am getting old... I completely forgot about that documentary. I seen the title of the link and thought it was/might be closer to the Sean Mc Philemy book.
Was there not a court bust up between Mc Philemy and Prentice which ultimately ended up as a "draw" Mc P. not backing down but D. Prentice never being exonerated of what he was being accused of?
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u/UncleRonnyJ Mar 08 '24
I bet they told you the fairies arent real?! In fairness the big one for me was that the united irishmen were a mix of religions with a hope to fight off the brits. And that back in the day many presbyterians spoke gaelic. Some even do today.
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u/macdaibhi03 Mar 08 '24
I'm afraid it's much worse than a few speakers... Presbyterians played an instrumental role in preserving many aspects of Irish culture through their heavy involvement in the Gaelic League.
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Mar 08 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Low-Math4158 Derry Mar 09 '24
Protestants keep their toasters in the cupboards. We keep them on the worktop.
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u/TusShona Mar 09 '24
My girlfriend does this, it drives me insane. She's English.
But my dad also does it in his work kitchen and he's catholic.. I think the reason he does it though, is in case a mouse manages to get into the canteen from the workshop, it can't crawl over the toaster if it's in a cupboard.
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u/Astroewok Mar 09 '24
I’m not sure it’s ubiquitous among homogenous groups (Although I understand the humour relies on the stereotype).
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u/Oh_its_that_asshole Mar 09 '24
I still can't understand why you would ever feel the need to tidy your toaster away.
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u/GraemeMark Ballymena Mar 08 '24
Lol it’s from Derry Girls.
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u/Silent-Wallaby4261 Mar 08 '24
It was a thing long before that.
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u/GrowthDream Mar 09 '24
I thought it originated with a question asked on this subreddit about 2 years before Derry Girls.
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u/TusShona Mar 09 '24
It was a thing, but it just wasn't as widespread. It's like one of the things you know you noticed before, but then someone else points it out and then you actually think about it .
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u/HotDiggetyDoge Mar 09 '24
No, it was a widespread joke that existed long before the show, they didn't point out something we hadn't noticed, they repeated a well known bit of pisstaking
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u/wall1194 Mar 08 '24
Some people actually keep their toaster on the counter not the cupboard
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u/willie_caine Mar 09 '24
Maybe the differences will disappear if people find a third place for the toaster? Maybe glued to the wall or in the fridge?
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u/North-Tangelo-5398 Mar 08 '24
The whole world over, people, are all the same. Same dreams, expectations and want their kids to get a good start. There is also a primal understanding of INEQUITY, from birth! Your politician, government, multinational and media have proven, that to have an agenda (always follow the money) you need to twist that innate fairness within everyone!
Every war and occupation/assimilation has been about power or wealth. Its just been about the Message (media) to get people to come on board! Even rudimentary history shows that creating sides in a country let's the instigators to rule both. Just look at the India East Company to see how it worked for future politics.
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u/cogra23 Mar 08 '24
At university I realised protestants pronounce H differently. I thought it was just a joke until then.
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u/Leafy_graffito Mar 09 '24
I went to a mostly Protestant secondary school after Catholic primaries and was made fun of for the way I said “H” and “Mary”, dunno if it’s a Catholic thing or a culchie accent thing but I would say “Mea-ree” rather than “Mayh-ree” lol
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u/bikeonachrist Mar 08 '24
Wait, were you totally isolated from Protestants until you were over 18? That’s blown my mind, and is also pretty scary to me
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u/bikeonachrist Mar 08 '24
I’m not sure why, but I naively assumed that such a insular upbringing would be impossible these days. Thank Christ for the internet.
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u/CommissarGamgee Derry Mar 09 '24
In Derry its pretty common because of the literal physical divide of the river. First time I knowingly spoke to a protestant was when I was 17.
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u/Jimmy1Sock Derry Mar 08 '24
A lot of Derry people can be isolated from Protestants well into their adult life. It just really depends on where you live and the places you hang around.
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u/CrabslayerT Mar 08 '24
I grew up in inishowen and had some protestant neighbours. We went to different primary schools but shared the same school bus. We went to the same secondary school. Never had any problems or issues. My best mate was a prod, married to a Catholic, but both are atheist. Religion is a load of wank, and the people that weaponize it are a bunch of cunts.
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u/cogra23 Mar 08 '24
Until I got a job at 18 there was no protestant I knew well or saw regularly. There was a mixed village a mile out the road with flags and stuff. But family, school, neighbours etc. was all one side.
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u/diaduitismise Mar 08 '24
the thing about no one speaking irish to me is so funny bc there’s both irish-medium secondary schools in the north are less than 45 minutes away from ballymena 😭
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u/yassbrendan Antrim Mar 08 '24
There is an OO in the republic and yes they still march without any drama every year 🤫
I always wondered why these people aren't reached out to more ref their identity & freedom to be who they want etc...
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u/Forward_Artist_6244 Mar 09 '24
If you ever visit Dough famine village in Donegal there's a recreation of an Orange Hall, I believe that a lodge from the Shankill supplied the materials and banners. Apparently the 'RA OKd it if they would also do a republican safe house thing too.
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u/DependentInitial1231 Mar 09 '24
This may interest you. It's in Co. Cavan and the OO and the AOH actually marched together.
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u/Eviladhesive Mar 08 '24
I watched a documentary on the OO in Dublin a few weeks ago. The way they were talking about it just smacked of the fact that they just liked being in a club their ancestors were in, there was no sense of a siege mindset at all.
I'd say they probably just liked having a little club for themselves.
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u/Electrical_Invite300 Mar 09 '24
Years ago, the BBC interviewed a guy from an Orange lodge in Canada who couldn't understand the sectarianism that was part and parcel of the Orange Order in Northern Ireland. He basically said that in Canada, it was an association that celebrated people's Ulster-Scots heritage. They also ran care homes that had Catholic residents.
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u/Ehldas Mar 08 '24
It must really wind them up to have people watch them and just... not give a shit.
"We demand the right to march!"
"Uh.. OK? It's a free country. Just... could ya keep the pipes down? It's going to be bad enough on Paddy's day with 157 school bands all playing 'Fáinne Geal an Lae' slightly off key."
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u/UniversalDav Mar 08 '24
Don’t feed the troll
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u/GraemeMark Ballymena Mar 08 '24
Me? I’m literally using my real name on Reddit 🤣
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u/Conalfz Mar 08 '24
I was born in Belfast in 1970, left after I finished Queens in 1993 to go to London just to get my head showered from the shite going on in Belfast. The last straw was the local version of the S*n putting an article on its front page saying that QUB students union was a recruiting ground for the IRA. Cue loads of pissed up cunts rocking out of bars on the Lisburn Road and Sandy Row looking for students to beat up. A couple of my mates who were actually prods got quite bad kickings and that was it for me. When I got to England I realised nobody gave a flying fuck about religion and I never moved back. I was walking into Leeds city centre years later with my daughter when she was about three and had a flashback to walking up Royal Avenue with my mum about the same age and getting searched at the barriers. It literally froze me with fear to think about my daughter experiencing at her age what I had in the 70’s. There are so many people of my age who lived through it from birth who thought that’s what normal life was and I’m absolutely convinced that the vast majority of us have some degree of PTSD because of it. They just don’t realise what it is, it took me until recently to work it out. When I see cunts like Bryson trying to start it off again it makes me so angry.
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u/byebyebirdie123 Mar 09 '24
Therr is absolutely a deep collective trauma in northen ireland that isn't being addressed or recognized
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u/SaltyZooKeeper Mar 08 '24
I was a few years ahead of you, went to Queens but stuck around through most of the 90s before going to Dublin because of the IT market. Apart from that, most of the story was the same, locals didn't understand what the fuss was about, then you have kids and hope it all goes away.
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u/shayne3434 Mar 08 '24
It was never about religion I was about basic human rights
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u/LostinIsaan Mar 10 '24
So true, but remember to some there are them (Good folk) and them there (Untermensch).
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u/chuck_away_2014 Mar 08 '24
Your story aligns with mine, except I eventually went to the US.
I explained what growing up in NI in the 70s and 80s was like and my therapist identified 1) that's not normal and 2) that explains the PTSD.
I've been on a path not just to bury but identify how it impacts my life and relationships, 40 years later.
NI seems to be making positive strides but the generations of dogmatic thinking is still being unwound
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u/Conalfz Mar 08 '24
This is the thing, it had to be pointed out to me that maybe it was PTSD. Like when something really heavy happens like the death of someone close I’m like yeah whatever while everyone else around (in England where I’ve lived for 30 years) is in bits. I seem to have this mechanism where I just block it out.
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u/chuck_away_2014 Mar 09 '24
Compartmentalization is a coping mechanism. Being able to disassociate from feelings is how a lot of people survive. Eventually, you can't connect to them anymore.
I was in the US for 9/11 and my coworkers were shocked at how I didn't seem affected.
Therapy practices how to put emotions back in a box so you can get back in control after processing them.
Honey, they've been in a box my whole life.
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u/[deleted] Mar 25 '24
You know doubt know about the plantations, and you might have a pretty good idea of the context and political motivation for them, but would I be right on saying that the violence involved was glossed over when you learnt about them?
The Irish Passport podcast recently did an episode called "Conquest: Scorching the Earth" on the plantation that took territory from two clans, one that owned the area around Belfast, the other the Glen's of Antrim. I don't know the boundaries so Ballymena might have been in either of these, or it might have been a third clan that wasn't mentioned. Regardless, it's some local history that I think you should give a listen to and I really can't recommend it enough. Might be worth noting that the guy in the podcast is a history professor (this subject isn't his speciality but I have faith that he has followed good academic practice when researching the story).
https://open.spotify.com/episode/6Q7ggLfYNJjKnBH43Pw4m7?si=qJLOiAOOSoe03QOJi6Lxgg
These are the private plantations that happened in the late 1500s which were approved by Queen Elizabeth. I'd like to hope that the plantations organised by the British Government a little later were a little more civilised, but I'm waiting for the next podcast episodes to be realised to find out the details.