r/nba • u/inefekt Australia • 14d ago
Donovan Mitchell now has three 50 point games in the playoffs. Only Michael Jordan (8) and Wilt Chamberlain (4) have more
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/most-50-point-games-in-playoffs-history1
u/SensitiveRocketsFan Rockets 13d ago
Cavs can’t shoot for shit, no one outside of Michell can make a shot towards the end of the game. Hell, cavs were better off if they just gave Mitchell the ball every possession.
1
6
u/noknownothing 13d ago edited 13d ago
Win/Loss in 50-point playoff games:
Jordan: 6-2
Wilt: 4-0
Iverson: 3-0
Mitchell: 1-2
1
2
11
u/TigerKlaw 14d ago
As insane as Wilt's reg season scoring resume is, Jordan's playoff scoring just blows Wilt's out of the water
3
u/JalenJohnson- Hawks 13d ago
That is because after Wilt left the Warriors (he was doing all of his crazy scoring numbers in the regular season with the Warriors, 50 ppg, 100, etc.) he stopped shooting as much and was in more of a defense/rebounding/playmaking role for both the Sixers and Lakers, whereas Jordan had the primary scoring role for his entire career.
When Wilt was with the Warriors, he averaged 34.6 ppg in the playoffs which would be first all time, above Jordan by about 1.2 ppg.
Jordan averaged 25 FGA for his playoff career.
Wilt averaged 28 FGA for his playoff career as a Warrior, 18 FGA as a Sixer and 11 FGA as a Laker.
It is also worth mentioning that Wilt played the same amount of playoff games as a Laker (80), shooting 11 times a game, as he did with the Warriors and Sixers combined, and played his least amount of playoff games as a Warrior.
So there’s a lot of context as to why “Jordan’s playoff scoring just blows Wilt’s out of the water,” as Wilt’s game changed drastically over his career.
1
u/TigerKlaw 13d ago
Wilt played 36 total playoff games with the warriors in your calculation. In Jordans first 36 games in the playoffs, he averaged 35.4 on 24.5 FGA, shooting 50.1% as a guard slightly better than Wilt's 49.9%. Wilt only started playing more of a facilitating the offense role by the second half of the 64-65 season and in the 65-66 season, the first time he averaged over 5 assists a game. It isn't by happenstance that the first time Wilt averaged more than 4.5 assists in the playoffs, he crushed the Celtics (10 assists a game) and won his first ring as the #2 scorer on his team.
Wilt has never had a playoff series where he averaged 40ppg, Jordan has about as many as everyone else in NBA history combined and one of which was in the Finals.
My point is that Wilts' role changed for the sake of winning, Jordan's did too from his earlier years, but he still kept the league-leading scoring numbers.
2
u/JalenJohnson- Hawks 13d ago
In Jordans first 36 games in the playoffs, he averaged 35.4 on 24.5 FGA, shooting 50.1% as a guard slightly better than Wilt's 49.9%.
The league average fg% from 1959-1964 (the time it took Wilt to play his first 36 playoff games) was 42%.
The league average fg% from 1984-1989 (Jordan’s first 36 playoff games) was 48.3%.
It isn't by happenstance that the first time Wilt averaged more than 4.5 assists in the playoffs, he crushed the Celtics (10 assists a game) and won his first ring as the #2 scorer on his team.
No, it isn’t. Wilt was a much better player as a Sixer than as a Warrior and I think most people agree with that.
Wilt has never had a playoff series where he averaged 40ppg, Jordan has about as many as everyone else in NBA history combined and one of which was in the Finals.
I never said Wilt was a better playoff scorer than Jordan and I don’t think he was, although this could be explained by the short timeframe Wilt had in his playoff career as “the guy” offensively compared to his offensive role for the majority of his career later on.
What I said was that there is a lot of context as to why the raw numbers of Jordan’s “blow Wilt’s out of the water.”
In fact, I think you would be hard pressed to find some Jordan playoff games as bad as some of Wilt’s.
For example, only shooting 15 shots (7-15, did go 8-9 from the line, surprisingly) in a 2 point game 7 loss to Boston in 1962 (season he averaged 50) when 3 teammates shot either more or same amount of shots (with Tom Gola only shooting one less) with your co-star Arizin shooting 4-22.
Or
A 4 point game 7 loss to Boston in 1968 where Wilt shot the 6th most amount of shots on the Sixers (8 players played in the whole game and non-Wilt players shot 34-99). Wilt went 4-9 from the field and 6-15 from the line.
If Jordan’s teammates aren’t making shots he would definitely step up and carry the load. Wilt didn’t always show up in big moments, Jordan always did.
My point is that Wilts' role changed for the sake of winning
We definitely both agree on this.
Jordan's did too from his earlier years, but he still kept the league-leading scoring numbers.
Yes, because he averaged 25 FGA for his entire playoff career while Wilt averaged 17 FGA for his entire playoff career.
Mathematically (and this doesn’t really matter I just wanted to throw it in here), if Wilt shot the same amount of FGA in the playoffs (17.1) as he did in the regular season (22.5) and made them at the same percentage as his playoff FG% (52.2%), then he would have averaged 28.1 ppg for his playoff career which would be 7th most all time and would change his perception quite a bit, I think.
I’m not saying Wilt was a better scorer than MJ. I’m just saying there is a lot of context as to why he only averaged 22.5 ppg for his entire playoff career.
5
u/Picklesbedamned 14d ago
Him and Booker are peak true shooting guards. They're not super consistent but then they pull off nights like this and they look like they could be the face of the league.
1
5
u/BryanFair [PHX] Steve Nash 14d ago
It's always this two guys MJ and Wilt that's on the list of any random insane BS stats lmao
1
u/LoWE11053211 Clippers 14d ago
When he is good...
he is fucking goooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooood
8
43
u/DrKurgan Raptors 14d ago
Win/loss if anybody is interested.
Jordan: 6 wins, 2 losses
Chamberlain: 4 wins
Mitchell: 1 win, 2 losses
3
35
u/Vangundystilts 14d ago
All of them in Orlando, too
3
u/Words_are_Windy Magic 13d ago
Guess he should just come play for the Magic since he enjoys performing there so much.
9
u/ratonbox Magic 14d ago
One vs Orlando, 2 vs Denver when he was playing for Utah.
30
46
-4
u/Haunting_Ad_4945 14d ago
Imagine if Donavan Mitchell was on the Knicks instead of Brunson. He’d be in the ECSF by now
8
u/thestandupkids Magic 14d ago
Probably not. The Nova Knicks chemistry is a big part of their success
1
u/I_Set_3_Alarms Celtics 14d ago
Donovan Mitchell is who Trae Young thinks he is
5
u/AntiTopspin 14d ago edited 14d ago
Well what they both are is two guys who can't be the best player on a championship team lol
They're far closer to each other than either is to the true tier 1A guys
201
u/lisbon_OH Cavaliers 14d ago
People are gonna say he hogs shots which sometimes is true.
But tonight he was literally the only person that could shoot the ball. There’s no reason in an elimination game you shouldn’t ride the hot hand if he’s scoring. Mobley only getting 4 shots is ridiculous but at the same time Mitchell was absolutely on fire. He was incredibly impressive tonight and it doesn’t mean shit because the rest of team minus Garland (although he really choked some possessions near the end of the game) could not do anything.
4
u/epicnerd427 [MEM] De'Anthony Melton 13d ago
When the other Cavs players had the ball in the 4th, they either threw up bricks or turned it over. Mitchell was on fire, and his teammates all were playing awful. Why would he pass when the only other guy who can make a bucket is Garland, who committed multiple inexcusable turnovers?
1
u/wazupbro [SAS] Tim Duncan 13d ago
Because like Chuck said. If you don’t think you’re getting the ball often from your teammate, you start taking bad and terrible shots because if you pass for better look you know you’re not getting the ball back.
1
u/HumptyDrumpy Tampa Bay Raptors 13d ago
I think Mobley was hurt, thats the only way to explain constantly missing 2 foot shots. JA needs to play on Sunday otherwise feel like the Cavs have no chance. Wrap up some braces and under armour on Allen...put him in coach
6
u/Icy-Payment-6612 Knicks 14d ago
I felt bad for Donovan tonight tbh. He was great. He was the only one in that 4th quarter doing anything. It's unfortunate his teammates couldn't do anything at the end to help.
Hopefully Jarrett Allen will be back for Sunday's game.
3
9
63
u/menghis_khan08 Jazz 14d ago
He hero balls but you can’t knock it when he’s extremely efficient which he was tonight. When he passed the other cats fumbled it.
5
u/need2peeat218am Timberwolves 14d ago
Was it also because his team was out of rhythm all game? Idk. But his team was playing worse than usual in a game like this. Playoff pressure? Who knows.
20
6
65
u/Just-Efficiency3129 Bulls 14d ago
Rest of Cavs went 0-6 in fourth quarter Mitchell should’ve shot more if anything
-2
u/CheckBetShove 14d ago
Awesome, now show the teams win loss record for each of those players. Dude gets points but he’s a freakin ball hog. Melo 2.0
2
u/GDTechno Heat 14d ago
if anything he didnt shoot enough. you dont realize just how bad his teammates shot this game
1
u/CheckBetShove 14d ago
Watched the whole game. Don’t really remember his teammates actually shooting, definitely not in the second half. 36 FGAs in a loss speaks for itself. He tried to one man army and failed
2
3
5
-7
u/New_Essay_4869 Thunder 14d ago edited 14d ago
Hes still the best sg in the league no matter what anyone thinks of Ant. He's done his part in every single playoff series he's been in thus far in his career outside of 2019 Houston series
6
u/MannerSuperb 14d ago
He absolutely did not do his part agaisnt the Knicks last year or the mavericks his last year in Utah . Your jus blatantly making shit up to try to put down ant 😂
7
u/MannerSuperb 14d ago edited 14d ago
No stop it Anthony edwards is the best two way 2 guard by a comfortable margin. Stop trying to be different this sub is such a prisoner of the damn moment with takes like this. I can tell you haven’t been watching this seires till tonight Mitchell has struggled most of the series until tonight. Not to mention defense is a part of the game. Ant is a significantly better defender that fucking matters. Ant took the best two gusrd mantel from Booker Mitchell is a great scorer but cmon bro he is not a more complete player than ant
-1
u/New_Essay_4869 Thunder 14d ago
Prisoner of the moment would be thinking that Ant's recent series was as good as Mitchell's LAC or Denver series bc they swept and Ant had a good game 4.
0
u/AntiTopspin 14d ago
Ant's first round series was literally 10x better than Mitchell is playing so far lol
Mitchell's stats in games 1-5 were not that good
3
u/MannerSuperb 14d ago
The heat of the moment takes this sub has is laughably atrocious sometimes lol
0
u/New_Essay_4869 Thunder 14d ago
Yet everyone here seems to think Ant's series this year was as good as Mitchell's LAC or Denver series.
1
u/MannerSuperb 14d ago
Yes tf it was becusse defense is apart of the game. His two way dominance was more impressive than jus Mitchell’s scoring.
8
u/BeneficialFinger 14d ago
He did not play well at all last year, but when it comes to best SG, it's between him, Ant, and Booker. Ant has not had a bad series yet but also no series as good as Mitchell so it's hard to say.
2
u/BTTWchungus NBA 14d ago
Booker dogshit. Ain't nowhere near top 3 atm
Mitchell, Ant, SGA, Brunson, etc.
9
u/MannerSuperb 14d ago
“ no series as good as Mitchell “ he was phenomenal on both ends agsisnt Denver last year and agaisnt Phoenix this year wth are you talking about lol
7
u/Kooky_Photograph3185 Jazz 14d ago
this also ignores that Ant is a much better defender. easier to be that guy on offense when nothing is expected from you on defense. Ant works both sides of the floor which can be physically exhausting.
3
u/MannerSuperb 14d ago
Exactly ant plays both ends with ruthless intensity. Mitchell does not bring close to the same intensity on the defensive end. Two way ability is more valuable in playoff basketball
2
u/menghis_khan08 Jazz 14d ago
Yup I’ve always considered Ant a thicker, taller more physical mitchell. Spida is imo a smidge better of a scorer as he has more finesse and a little bit better of a shooter, and ant relies a bit more on physicality to get the rim v sexier, slippery slashing/eurostepping - but ant brings that physicality on both ends, Donny’s game style drains him and he’s got nothing preserved for the defensive end
2
u/MannerSuperb 14d ago
Their scoring is super close. I think Mitchell being a more consistent 3 ball shooter gives him the Eve so slight edge but both are excellent finishers at rhe rim. Ant does use a lot of power but he actually has developed some finesse to his finishing. He has a smooth euro step finger roll he uses a lot and he has developed a deadly deacceleration floater he uses around the rim that’s extremely effective for him. Your completely on point about Mitchell’s playstyle tho. It absolutely takes away his legs on defense he consistently looks gashed on that end
-3
u/soundisloud Cavaliers 14d ago
That's cause he is a ball hog
0
7
u/Bouldershoulders12 Celtics 14d ago
How? This is a bad take
If y’all win and he drops 50 it’s a all time great performance and he wanted it more than the other team and took over
If y’all lose and he drops 50 he’s a ball hog
1
u/CheckBetShove 14d ago
Iso every single damn possession in the 4th. How the fuck can anyone else get a rhythm on offense if they never actually touch the ball. Mitchell is the exact type of player I hate having on my team. Wants to win the game all by himself. Melo 2.0
3
u/Rationalknicksfan 14d ago
besides two players nobody else had more than 4 points. Those guys played well below their averages not his fault
-3
u/CheckBetShove 14d ago
Of course They played below their averages because they never actually touched the ball long enough to get any kind of rhythm. How does that not make sense to people. Cavs had effectively 0 ball movement or play making, just spamming iso, how do you expect people to contribute that way
4
u/soundisloud Cavaliers 14d ago
This. The rest of the team played so much better in the 21-22 season when they were involved in the offense.
4
u/CheckBetShove 14d ago
Nephews here just don’t get it, they think Mitchell is a god with no help. They are unable to comprehend he is the reason none of his teammates can get a scoring rhythm. They just stand there
8
u/MegaAltarianite 14d ago
He might be, but 22-36 is efficient. And he still had the second most assists on the team.
1
7
10
u/TruthSayerFu Cavaliers 14d ago
Mobley was pathetic. I don’t blame him.
-4
u/soundisloud Cavaliers 14d ago
You can't contribute when you don't have the ball. He only had 5 shot attempts because Mitchell iso'd nearly every play.
5
5
3
15
439
u/Dilf_Hunter367 Celtics 14d ago
Forgot this mfer once dropped 57 on the Nuggets in a loss
2
6
u/HumptyDrumpy Tampa Bay Raptors 13d ago
Spida was a gamer tonight. Dood was injured and put up 50. If he was 100% healthy I have no doubt Cavs would have closed out tonight. Dood would have scored 70 easily with how mentally determined he was
3
u/jesuswasahipster Nuggets 13d ago
That series was ridiculous. Those battles between him and Jamal were insane.
15
271
u/menghis_khan08 Jazz 14d ago
Just looked at his series numbers against the nuggs again. Averaged 39.5, 4.5 5.8 on 55/51/96 shooting. He had a second 50 point game. Like wtf lmao
2
7
30
160
u/IndependentFroyo4508 14d ago
What an incredible series and incredible head to head between Murray and Mitchell. Pure entertainment
69
u/Efficient_Ant_4715 14d ago
One of my favorite series ever
61
u/need2peeat218am Timberwolves 14d ago
As much as people shit on the bubble tournament, it was the closest we got to pure hoops. Minimal outside distractions, no fans heckling, just 2 teams duking it out. It had some absolutely amazing moments.
1
u/hypevictim [POR] Arvydas Sabonis 13d ago
I agree the bubble had some amazing moments but it also had some crazy statistics like the scoring in that series because nobody could play team defense. Guys spent a couple months just shooting by themselves and working on their offensive game and then they had what was essentially preseason basketball and then the playoffs. So while it was fun, and a wonderful escape at the time, I didn't feel like playoff basketball on the court (and obvs no crowd). Three point percentages typically go down by 2-3 percent from regular season to playoffs. In the bubble they went up from the regular season.
5
10
u/CavalierShaq Cavaliers 13d ago
Am I bad for wishing all basketball was played that way?
16
u/BrockStinky 13d ago
Fans should be there, but just a little farther away. Courtside seats shouldn't be literally on the court imo, take it a few feet further behind and give the game some unencroachable room.
9
u/DroppedNineteen 13d ago
Idk about bad but when fans finally made their way back into arenas again, I realized how much I missed them. Those Knicks playoff games were so much fun.
67
51
12
u/Sixteenlittlepigs Australia 14d ago
One of the best play-off risers I've ever seen
17
u/AntiTopspin 14d ago edited 14d ago
He becomes significantly more aggressive as a scorer in the playoffs
I'm not necessarily sure if he "rises" in terms of overall impact though
Jacking up 22 shots a game on 43% from the field and 55% TS(his playoff average) with only meh playmaking and defense isn't exactly what I'd call championship play
-1
u/HoyaDestroya33 Knicks 14d ago
You ain't winning a championship with him as your best player. His teams has always been him taking like 50% of the shots.
-2
u/EutaxySpy 13d ago
Knicks fan saying this is kinda funny but I guess it makes sense since it takes someone who experiences it the most to be able to tell
0
2
1
4
96
u/gigglios 14d ago
Good company. He is a playoff performer no matter what people say lol
1
10
66
14d ago
[deleted]
32
u/AntiTopspin 14d ago edited 14d ago
This is the thing
I'm not sure if someone who gives you 27-28 PPG on 55%ish TS(what he's done for both his playoff career and this series) without any notable defensive or playmaking ability is someone you can build a contender around
It's not as much about Mitchell specifically as it is the scoring 2 guard just being the least valuable archetype in the current NBA to build around as a #1
1
2
u/bdybwyi 14d ago
Who is better Mitchell or Jamal Murray? Curious to hear the communities thoughts. Funny when I see the Nuggets hat on him at draft night and think what if.
8
u/hriszzzzz [GSW] Stephen Curry 14d ago
Kinda hard to choose. My first instinct was to yell Murray because of the his highlight plays in clutch situations. But the more I think, I realize it's unfair on Mitchell as Murray is a second option to probably the best player of the current generation. He has the luxury of having poor 3 quarters or coasting in regular season, while Mitchell does not. Mitchell can dominate all game and will still lose a lot, while Murray can shine for 2 minutes and make a buzzer beater and come out a hero.
6
21
14d ago
[deleted]
16
u/menghis_khan08 Jazz 14d ago edited 14d ago
That’s kinda my point though. With his measurables (Tatum is 6’8) he wouldn’t have to explode as much on offense and be too tired for the defensive end. All the best two way players have giant frames.
At 6’1 (even with the wingspan) he needs to use a ton of explosion and athleticism to go off. His body type and playstyle doesn’t really allow him to save much on the defensive end.
I don’t think there are any players in the history of the game that can easily go off for 30+ on offense as a score first guy on any given night and play great defense <6’3. Height let’s you spot up and shoot over players, or drive and dunk with ease, saving energy for defense
12
14d ago
[deleted]
5
u/borkbubble Rockets 14d ago
20 and 30 ppg are massively different
10
14d ago
[deleted]
5
u/tacopower69 [DEN] Jamal Murray 14d ago
Same with Harden. I think the main difference is those two are amazing play makers and don't drive a ton.
6
u/menghis_khan08 Jazz 14d ago edited 14d ago
Exactly we’re talking about score first guys, not playmakers who can change it up with some efficient shooting. Plenty of deadly and awesome point guards throughout nba history who scored an efficient 20. But mitchell is a true 2 guard in a point guard sized body
30
u/menghis_khan08 Jazz 14d ago
Ya I honestly feel bad for him that he has the measurables he has. His skill in a bigger body and he could be tatum or better. But as a score first two guard at 6’1 it just makes him limited to build around. Point guard/playmaker height but that’s not his game.
He needs to play next to a larger build playmaking two way player point guard. Not many of those
1
u/CavalierShaq Cavaliers 13d ago
Replace Murray with Mitchell and I’d argue the nuggets are a better team
30
1
u/degradedchimp 13d ago
Everytime a player gets a stat like this it's always; only wilt and MJ have more.